Here we go again

[Altina_Orion]

Did you miss what this thread is about? There's nothing about what you're talking about here.

1) There's no 1-shot mechanics in this place.
2) What are you talking about with masochism, the game is expecting the player to know how to play it after 100 levels.
3) Memorization and understanding what tells/mechanics are has always been a staple of ffxiv.
4) If you have grievances with the MSQ story, wrong thread.
5) What is any of your second paragraph, the thread is about a dungeon boss being "hard", even if it's not.

This is true, nothing will one shot you unless you have 3-4 stacks of vuln. Tanks get even more free hits.

[AlienDiplomat]

What I am suggesting is that the same design philosophy behind Elden Ring and similar games has been creeping into other titles, this one included. Any time the community points out the memory puzzles, untelegraphed rofl stomps, and other difficulty changes that are far beyond what any previous expansion introduced, the same vocal crowd of "git good" elitists who are somehow not OK with staying in their extremes and insist that NORMAL mode content all needs to be designed for them too chime in, just like I see endlessly on Steam and Reddit posts for those other games.

This philosophy is toxic because it gives devs an excuse to skimp on content. Why bother designing multiple tiers of difficulty? Just make everything more difficult and let the elitists insult the "crybabies" and "carebears" who have the audacity to believe that paying for a sub should entitle them to normal mode difficulty in normal mode content, or feel cheated when suddenly the difficulty expectation is ramped up dramatically on the content they used to enjoy with no real alternative?

I have witnessed this community cannibalize itself rather than admitting that fewer difficulty modes means paying the same for less. But so long as the content we get is what THEY want, people don't seem to care what others are losing. It is a fundamentally selfish view and leads to diminishing returns for the game. But Steam can't seem to sell enough "souls-like" games so I guess we don't need any other type of game anymore.

Why even bother writing a story?

[Altina_Orion]

What I am suggesting is that the same design philosophy behind Elden Ring and similar games has been creeping into other titles, this one included. Any time the community points out the memory puzzles, untelegraphed rofl stomps, and other difficulty changes that are far beyond what any previous expansion introduced, the same vocal crowd of "git good" elitists who are somehow not OK with staying in their extremes and insist that NORMAL mode content all needs to be designed for them too chime in, just like I see endlessly on Steam and Reddit posts for those other games.

This philosophy is toxic because it gives devs an excuse to skimp on content. Why bother designing multiple tiers of difficulty? Just make everything more difficult and let the elitists insult the "crybabies" and "carebears" who have the audacity to believe that paying for a sub should entitle them to normal mode difficulty in normal mode content, or feel cheated when suddenly the difficulty expectation is ramped up dramatically on the content they used to enjoy with no real alternative?

I have witnessed this community cannibalize itself rather than admitting that fewer difficulty modes means paying the same for less. But so long as the content we get is what THEY want, people don't seem to care what others are losing. It is a fundamentally selfish view and leads to diminishing returns for the game. But Steam can't seem to sell enough "souls-like" games so I guess we don't need any other type of game anymore.

Why even bother writing a story?

I actually still want a harder difficulty. The dungeon is still quite easy after a run or two. It would be nice if they applied the new "Quantum" mechanics to dungeons to make them far more challenging.

[Mawlzy]

Genuinely, your FC does not make the majority of players, if they could not get through content in Dawntrail it's incredibly questionable how they did anything like Stormblood or Shadowbringers content as those were harder expansions. People quitting is not due to difficult content, it's other things entirely like job homogenization, I'm sorry but this isn't a difficult dungeon by most standards. If it uniquely challenges you then the best you can do is not do so in trusts and use other players to help as trusts are more difficult in general due to them being slower damage dealers and less reactive healing.

Also wrt to why no battle rez from Trusts, the simple answer is there's no failure state then if you can be picked up by trusts it becomes trivial to bot dungeons as all they need is to move forward and not care about doing mechanics. There's also simply no incentive for players to become better if they need to take the smallest amount of personal responsibility to stay alive. SE does want players to learn and understand mechanics, not simply face tank everything as that is frankly, boring.

What is this obsession with players getting better? Why is it so hard to understand that some are maxed out? I understand my FC doesn't make up the bulk of the player base, but when all your friends quit because the dungeon difficulty has reached the point they dread reaching the next one in the MSQ, it presents something of a problem.

I actually still want a harder difficulty. The dungeon is still quite easy after a run or two. It would be nice if they applied the new "Quantum" mechanics to dungeons to make them far more challenging.

Give us a easy, normal and hard mode and your wish will be fulfilled!

[EusisLandale]

untelegraphed rofl stomps, ~ far beyond what any previous expansion introduced

Might I direct your attention to Coincounter? A boss from the launch of the game. It took about 7 years for him to get his attacks telegraphed.

[Altina_Orion]

What is this obsession with players getting better? Why is it so hard to understand that some are maxed out? I understand my FC doesn't make up the bulk of the player base, but when all your friends quit because the dungeon difficulty has reached the point they dread reaching the next one in the MSQ, it presents something of a problem.



Give us a easy, normal and hard mode and your wish will be fulfilled!

And what difficulty would roulette be? It already gives you like 5 chances to get hit before you die, so i'm not sure how much easier you want it? Invulnerable to everything?

[Mawlzy]

And what difficulty would roulette be? It already gives you like 5 chances to get hit before you die, so i'm not sure how much easier you want it? Invulnerable to everything?

I've advocated for DS NPCs to be able to rez. Based on recent threads, nobody at my skill level will ever do a roulette again when they read how much they are despised.

The point is the only way you'll ever get a harder version of this dungeon is if difficulty options are introduced. Why not lobby for it?

This is the part I have a big problem with as well. I am totally fine with people wanting to challenge themselves and overcome obstacles. But why do we need to force the average MSQ casual into these endless grinds? Why can't FFXIV figure out how to have normal and higher difficulty modes like literally every other MMO? Why can't difficulty addicts be satisfied with that challenge being found in hard modes or extremes? Why does every MSQ story dungeon need to be about their never ending need for greater and greater difficulty?

It almost seems like being able to exclude other people from enjoying content by pushing the difficulty bar higher IS the actual goal for a lot of people. This would be the same reason people are so fixated on seeing their DPS parse on 3rd party websites. It is the age-old comparative valuation vs. journey not destination argument.

It does seem that those who prefer less challenging content are perfectly happy letting everyone else have the difficulty level they require, but for some reason the skilled players want to gate the game and eliminate those they deem unworthy.

Seems rather spiteful to me. Part of it may be a lack of understanding that those who have experienced RL challenges have little interest in overly-taxing artificial ones existing in a game.

Finally, I have to give credit to the OP for the thread title. Here we go again with one portion of the player base requesting an optional feature that will not impact anyone else, and receive abuse in return. GCBTW.

[AlienDiplomat]

What is this obsession with players getting better? Why is it so hard to understand that some are maxed out? I understand my FC doesn't make up the bulk of the player base, but when all your friends quit because the dungeon difficulty has reached the point they dread reaching the next one in the MSQ, it presents something of a problem.

Give us a easy, normal and hard mode and your wish will be fulfilled!

This is the part I have a big problem with as well. I am totally fine with people wanting to challenge themselves and overcome obstacles. But why do we need to force the average MSQ casual into these endless grinds? Why can't FFXIV figure out how to have normal and higher difficulty modes like literally every other MMO? Why can't difficulty addicts be satisfied with that challenge being found in hard modes or extremes? Why does every MSQ story dungeon need to be about their never ending need for greater and greater difficulty?

It almost seems like being able to exclude other people from enjoying content by pushing the difficulty bar higher IS the actual goal for a lot of people. This would be the same reason people are so fixated on seeing their DPS parse on 3rd party websites. It is the age-old comparative valuation vs. journey not destination argument.

[XtremePrime]

As many people in this thread already mentioned, if DSS is too difficult to do solo, maybe you can open up a PF explaining the situation and people can help you out with it. (I'm on Chaos EU, but I'd offer my help aswell!)
Players will be able to help you much more than the NPCs do, and a lot of the players are fairly understanding and will stick around after wipes (unlike other communities)

I guess this is the MMO part of the game, ask for help from other players and good luck with the Meso Terminal run!

[Altina_Orion]

This is the part I have a big problem with as well. I am totally fine with people wanting to challenge themselves and overcome obstacles. But why do we need to force the average MSQ casual into these endless grinds? Why can't FFXIV figure out how to have normal and higher difficulty modes like literally every other MMO? Why can't difficulty addicts be satisfied with that challenge being found in hard modes or extremes? Why does every MSQ story dungeon need to be about their never ending need for greater and greater difficulty?

Because it isnt just the MSQ story dungeon, its a dungeon raiders generally run 5 times a week because they need tomes for raiding gear. The tomes you get for it are legitimately for raiding gear and are unnecessary for casuals. So maybe it's SEs fault for making raiders grind casual content. Casual gamers who dont even want to run EX only truly have to run it once ever and YOU WILL CLEAR. Even if you play awfully, you can get carried though.