League levels of toxic behavour in game.

[Mawlzy]

It puzzles me that Duty Support gets so much hate on these boards, when it's apparent that conflicting playstyles and priorities mean the odds of DF creating a compatible team are close to nil.

Personally I'm now in the "You pull, I'll do my nails" camp.

[Haru304]

It's pretty simple honestly. Abiding by the game's current design philosophy for 99% of content. If the DPS or healer want to pull the 'mostly harmless' trash mobs, then I'll go in and grab aggro -regardless of the tanking role- with the same-y AoE single or rotation that every tanking job role has. I'm there to get a dungeon out of the way, not spend time deliberating on the ethics of who pulls what, in a game that isn't designed to penalise players for pulling ahead of the tank. The game itself, outside of very specific content, does not encourage a practised approach to pulling or aggro management. Turn on aggro mode. Spam AoE. Spam defensive CDs... .. at some point they're maybe needed?

Now. If the game was designed so that the DPS/Healer would get absolutely murdered for pulling ahead of me, that's another story. That's very much a teaching moment. One where I don't even have to get involved. Mobs that can pose a threat mean two things. It means that the tank is going to learn very quickly that they -need- that aggro, and it means that the DPS/Healer should learn very quickly that they absolutely -DO NOT- want that aggro.

In the past, I've had anxiety about tanking and healing across various MMORPGs. I do not get this in the current iteration of FFXIV. Because tanking for me, outside of VERY SPECIFIC instances where I'm required to double stack, or occasionally taunt in MUCH higher effort content, that does not make up a significant chunk of the game, is just turning on aggro gen and then basically being a DPS. Healing is mostly DPS but I occasionally should throw out a heal if someone's self sustain hasn't already done the job for them. I suppose being able to pull other players out of AoE that'll kill them is also sort've fun. But that's about the height of class creativity right now.

I don't see the point of taking a stance of "I'm the tank, I pull /stands doing nails while the group clears the rest of the dungeon without me" mentality in a game that doesn't respect class identity, job roles or enemy friction.

[Ephremjlm]

I main PLD, and unless someone is verbally abusing you I don't understand the problem here. These dungeons are hallways designed specifically to be able to pull wall to wall as fast as possible. If a DPS gets ahead of you, who cares. It's their game too and no one needs to make you feel like the leader. They should be pulling them back to you but if they don't understand that and die while you are making sure you get all the other mobs then let the healer take care of it and keep pushing. The only way you get to dictate the runs are done is if you play with the NPC's that the game gives you for single player play. Playing with other people means variables, and sometimes that includes things that you don't prefer.

[NaoSen]

Can't speak for other regions but if you're in EU and experiencing toxicity in duty finder content enough to even remember more than one or two times in recent memory then chances are it's a you problem.
It's a rarity to even have tanks who don't wall to wall pull past SHB content.

Tanks who don't wall to wall pull or healers that can't handle wall to wall pulls (assuming tank is mitigating at all) on anything past 80 should probably watch/read some guides or switch jobs for roulettes.

[Connor]

Can't speak for other regions but if you're in EU and experiencing toxicity in duty finder content enough to even remember more than one or two times in recent memory then chances are it's a you problem.
It's a rarity to even have tanks who don't wall to wall pull past SHB content.

Tanks who don't wall to wall pull or healers that can't handle wall to wall pulls (assuming tank is mitigating at all) on anything past 80 should probably watch/read some guides or switch jobs for roulettes.

Came here to say this, also on EU server and I genuinely cannot remember the last time this ever happened in a dungeon lol. Literally every time has been the ‘gold standard’ dungeon run of ‘tank pulls everything’ - ‘healer spams dps’- ‘dps spam aoe’, -‘boss’. Even if someone does accidentally (or otherwise) pull something the tank just uses like literally any ability and continues on unfazed lol. Like I’m pretty sure you could literally use an uncombo’d Prominence and still have the enemy largely fixed on you for enmity (I pressed it by accident I swear!)

[yuurei94]

If I'm playing tank and a DPS or healer runs ahead of me and pulls mobs, I'm honestly thankful. All I have to do is gap close (if I have it), sprint, slap them with an aoe, throw up my mits, and it's EZGG. It's...not difficult in the slightest. And, in all honesty, it's much more fun that way.

[MikeCake]

It's pretty simple honestly. Abiding by the game's current design philosophy for 99% of content. If the DPS or healer want to pull the 'mostly harmless' trash mobs, then I'll go in and grab aggro -regardless of the tanking role- with the same-y AoE single or rotation that every tanking job role has. I'm there to get a dungeon out of the way, not spend time deliberating on the ethics of who pulls what, in a game that isn't designed to penalise players for pulling ahead of the tank. The game itself, outside of very specific content, does not encourage a practised approach to pulling or aggro management. Turn on aggro mode. Spam AoE. Spam defensive CDs... .. at some point they're maybe needed?

Now. If the game was designed so that the DPS/Healer would get absolutely murdered for pulling ahead of me, that's another story. That's very much a teaching moment. One where I don't even have to get involved. Mobs that can pose a threat mean two things. It means that the tank is going to learn very quickly that they -need- that aggro, and it means that the DPS/Healer should learn very quickly that they absolutely -DO NOT- want that aggro.

In the past, I've had anxiety about tanking and healing across various MMORPGs. I do not get this in the current iteration of FFXIV. Because tanking for me, outside of VERY SPECIFIC instances where I'm required to double stack, or occasionally taunt in MUCH higher effort content, that does not make up a significant chunk of the game, is just turning on aggro gen and then basically being a DPS. Healing is mostly DPS but I occasionally should throw out a heal if someone's self sustain hasn't already done the job for them. I suppose being able to pull other players out of AoE that'll kill them is also sort've fun. But that's about the height of class creativity right now.

I don't see the point of taking a stance of "I'm the tank, I pull /stands doing nails while the group clears the rest of the dungeon without me" mentality in a game that doesn't respect class identity, job roles or enemy friction.

If it were so simple for OP's case, the problem is not everyone is used to this unwritten "design philosophy".
You are correct like 99% of the time in duty finder you just get people who want to get it over with, and nobody cares who pulled first or whatever, they are just there to get their duty done.
Sometimes you go as a tank and get called out for pulling too fast, there is no pleasing people and no set rules in DF, there isn't a consistent standard or philosophy to it.
And you have missed the OP's point, for sure they could report it and move on, but that is not the point of their post to start with.

[Haru304]

On the contrary, I have not missed the OPs point. I completely understand the point they have made. I simply find it farcical. I never even suggested they should 'report it and move on'. What they can do, is play the game as it's designed, or not play the game.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to abide by one set of rules when the majority of the active playerbase are using another rulebook, particularly when the game design philosophy encourages a very specific approach and play-style.

[MikeCake]

... I have not missed the OPs point. I completely understand the point they have made. I simply find it farcical ... What they can do, is play the game as it's designed, or not play the game.

Hard disagree on playing "as it's designed", you are still dismissing the core points of OP post here and layering your opinions as a "philosophy".
The main focus of duty finder is to finish the duty, there only rules there are, are the actual ToS which you could break and what happened to OP when DPS start pointing finger at the tank for a mistake the DPS themselves have done.
You are still dismissing his point by saying its farcical, its not the same for everyone. If the game philosophy encouraged players to play a very specific style as you think it should be played, we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.
But neither the game or the community expresses this as a fact, that is just your take.

[Haru304]

I think you might be misunderstanding what I’m saying. I’m not saying there’s only one “right” way to play. What I mean is that the game’s design — like low enemy threat, easy AoE aggro, and no strict role rules — basically lets people rush through dungeons however they want. It’s not about what’s written in the rules, but what the game mechanics actually encourage or punish.

Tanks (or the OP) definitely shouldn’t get flak for asking others to slow down. But the idea that tanks always have to pull isn’t really backed up by how the game works most of the time. If the game wanted to make “tank pulls first” a hard rule, it could, but it doesn’t — except in a few cases where pulling ahead actually gets you punished.

Honestly, the easiest way to avoid this drama is to run with friends who get how you want to play. The reason these problems happen so often is because the game lets people play fast and loose in most dungeons.