For all those complaining about stale dungeons: from a beta player perspective

[MarniDawg]

Variant is the answer, but we don't have much of it yet. I absolutely loved having branching paths to figure out and having it affect bosses and their mechanics. I also like how they future proofed it so it can be done solo or with a light party. I wish there was more of this and that it could be a reasonable way to get new tomes from doing Variant instead of expert roulette with its grand total of 2 dungeons at a time.

[BigCheez]

Variant is the answer, but we don't have much of it yet. I absolutely loved having branching paths to figure out and having it affect bosses and their mechanics. I also like how they future proofed it so it can be done solo or with a light party. I wish there was more of this and that it could be a reasonable way to get new tomes from doing Variant instead of expert roulette with its grand total of 2 dungeons at a time.

I think the branching paths idea of variant dungeons is cool but other than that they were even less interesting than normal modern dungeons. It was just a linear corridor dungeon, except you get to choose your linear corridor, and every pull is a forced single pull.

[Supersnow845]

They can keep the tailored hallway design if they really want but they need to make what’s inside the hallway more interesting

Like I don’t necessarily have a problem with a dungeon like holminster switch being a hallway because it’s designed in a way to tell a story. But it’s the fact that modern dungeons also don’t do anything interesting in boss or trash design. Like the single most “out of the box” design made by a DT dungeon is that casters and healers can sleep the turtle in origenics which stops his massive chariot

[Striker44]

And SE in their usual fashion took upon to decide that if something is flawed, it's better to delete everything down to blandness instead of fixing it.

How do you "fix" the humans that make up the playerbase?

[Supersnow845]

How do you "fix" the humans that make up the playerbase?

Acknowledge that there will always be conflict in a game where people play with each other and not attempt to remove all points of conflict for little change because people still argue?

[Valence]

How do you "fix" the humans that make up the playerbase?

There are things that can be addressed by how the layout works, and some that don't.
The exploratory part of it for example, will only work the first weeks at release until people decide "the meta" and everybody that deviates will be screamed at in parties.
But introducing variations through different paths chosen at random by the system or having a more dynamic layout is definitely a solution. There can also be map based specific objectives with a little rng involved like the prisoners back in CLL, forcing players to actually explore what has to be explored for said objectives. If said objectives yield more rewards (tomes, xp, and loot) then people will try to go for them.

[Gwenkatsu]

As long as dungeons are part of your daily routine (roulette), there is no way to de-borify them. No matter how many different routes you add, no matter how many abilities you give the trash - do the same dungeon 50 times, and it will be boring, no matter how interesting it was on your first 5 runs.

[Volgia]

Both these dungeons you had to learn as a tank how to pull some mobs but not others. It was easy to pull more mob packs than you intended and get overwhelmed.

I think we hit another problem and I think this is more on the players, cuz you can just ask if you can do big pulls or small pulls. Back in the day if a healer was a newbie or anxious they would just ask if you could go slow, whereas now there is no need to ask, you will _always_ go the same pace, removing the small skill expression within dungeons.

[Jeeqbit]

I think we hit another problem and I think this is more on the players, cuz you can just ask if you can do big pulls or small pulls. Back in the day if a healer was a newbie or anxious they would just ask if you could go slow, whereas now there is no need to ask, you will _always_ go the same pace, removing the small skill expression within dungeons.

In a lot of cases, 2-3 packs felt about right and allowed for skill expression. Where 3 enemies felt boring. It was boring for the DPS, who couldn't make full use of their rotation on so few enemies. It was boring for the tanks, who virtually didn't need mitigation except in Bardam's Mettle. It was boring for the healers.

I say was because, with our bloated kits and how old content has got more trivial from battle system and potency changes over the years, 2-3 packs is not really much threat in most dungeons anymore.

But the fact is, a tank can still choose to only pull one pack if they want to make it extremely safe and virtually remove the slightest challenge or thought from the activity, so no mit or anything is needed whatsoever, and most likely that is why SE still allows this choice to be a thing. It's just our bloated kits have reduced the challenge of larger pulls in a lot of cases.

[Daudream]

I miss toto-rak and i fear for the next duty support expansion every time