Finally tried WoW

[Codyjt92]

Ah sure cause that's what this post was about which one was better....As I pointed out numerous times it was a question in why a game 20+ yrs can manage to fix simple things.



Yes I see where you're coming from, but 14 is a game that came way later, it should've learned and be ahead of WoW. Like WoW has done by taking 14's housing system and made it better...

That's literally what your entire post is about. How a 20-year-old game with a much larger budget than FFXIV is able to have features that FFIX has, and do it better. You want to know why they do it better? 1. They have a much larger budget than ffxiv now with the backing of Microsoft funding them 2. Many of these features were added into WoW way after FFXIV had them in their game. Again, FFXIV just needs to polish up their current systems. Not completely redesign the game into something new. You bring up housing. WoW literally just added this... Players have been begging for it since vanilla.

[Chasingstars]

Yes I see where you're coming from, but 14 is a game that came way later, it should've learned and be ahead of WoW. Like WoW has done by taking 14's housing system and made it better...

Yep and that is where people want to hope that CBU3 keeps learning from Blizzard on what should be implemented. Sadly what we have now in FFXIV is basically the black magic equivalent of alt support with shell FCs and similar matters that are not really intended for alts but for other players.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

Yep and that is where people want to hope that CBU3 keeps learning from Blizzard on what should be implemented. Sadly what we have now in FFXIV is basically the black magic equivalent of alt support with shell FCs and similar matters that are not really intended for alts but for other players.

hopefully will see what's to come with fanfest...

[Shurrikhan]

Ah, you mean when WoW was still good. Tbh, if you enjoy wow so much, just go play it. No one is forcing you to stay with ffxiv. It's okay to move on.

I like the open world of most XIV zones even if I do agree that there can and should be far more done with it, but given the context, this exchange looks more like...

>> I'd love to have more palpable lore, topographical variance, and at least somewhat worthwhile activities built into the open world in XIV, too.

<< Just play WoW. Keep that shit out of XIV.

???

[Masekase_Hurricane]

I like the open world of most XIV zones even if I do agree that there can and should be far more done with it, but given the context, this exchange looks more like...

>> I'd love to have more palpable lore, topographical variance, and at least somewhat worthwhile activities built into the open world in XIV, too.

<< Just play WoW. Keep that shit out of XIV.

???

When we're getting told to play other games Yoshida should expect feedback from playing said games lol

But playing other games and giving feedback doesnt mean I want to quit. But time investment can change that... I think it's a dangerous thing to ask other players to do..

[Uzephi]

Many of these features were added into WoW way after FFXIV had them in their game. Again, FFXIV just needs to polish up their current systems. Not completely redesign the game into something new. You bring up housing. WoW literally just added this... Players have been begging for it since vanilla.

Transmog isn't that old. I think 10 or so years old, so after FFXIV. Autodismount when interacting targets wasn't a thing until 2009. Our old world has to be completely destroyed and rebuilt that split the playerbase before we got flying in starter zones.

At least FFXIV still has some of its legacy systems. Not many armor pieces are unobtainable, like some items in WoW. *Cough Ateish* *cough benediction/anathema* *cough most tier 3 stuff*

They're asking as a new player and didn't run into these issues. Also, budget isn't an excuse. You're profitable? You have budget, it's not our fault you (SE) mismanage assets.

[Codyjt92]

I like the open world of most XIV zones even if I do agree that there can and should be far more done with it, but given the context, this exchange looks more like...

>> I'd love to have more palpable lore, topographical variance, and at least somewhat worthwhile activities built into the open world in XIV, too.

<< Just play WoW. Keep that shit out of XIV.

???

Except that's not what the OP posted about. I could very much agree that the FFXIV open world is lacking to that compared to WoW. I 100% do think FFXIV should have completely voiced MSQ.

Many of the features that WoW has adopted over the years have been that from FFXIV, transmog, housing, campaign story, cinematics, etc. They did it "better" because 1. They're fairly recent additions to the game. 2. They keep the systems updated. (As I pointed out, FFXIV releases a feature, and then never touches it again. Heck, even targeting in FFXIV is starting to feel outdated. ) FFXIV could thrive even more, if the devs would release and MAINTAIN game systems.

Here is what WoW has that I absolutely do not want to see in FFXIV: Entire Open World Level Scaling, Item Level Scaling, progression locked behind dailies, handout legendaries, epics, etc, borrowed power features.

WoW borrows a lot of its idea's from other games. It just revamped its flying. They got it from GW2. WoW has essentially an unlimited budget.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

I like the open world of most XIV zones even if I do agree that there can and should be far more done with it, but given the context, this exchange looks more like...

>> I'd love to have more palpable lore, topographical variance, and at least somewhat worthwhile activities built into the open world in XIV, too.

<< Just play WoW. Keep that shit out of XIV.

???

Except that's not what the OP posted about. I could very much agree that the FFXIV open world is lacking to that compared to WoW. I 100% do think FFXIV should have completely voiced MSQ.


Many of the features that WoW has adopted over the years have been that from FFXIV, transmog, housing, campaign story, cinematics, etc. They did it "better" because 1. They're fairly recent additions to the game. 2. They keep the systems updated. (As I pointed out, FFXIV releases a feature, and then never touches it again. Heck, even targeting in FFXIV is starting to feel outdated. ) FFXIV could thrive even more, if the devs would release and MAINTAIN game systems.

Here is what WoW has that I absolutely do not want to see in FFXIV: Entire Open World Level Scaling, Item Level Scaling, progression locked behind dailies, handout legendaries, epics, etc, borrowed power features.

WoW borrows a lot of its idea's from other games. It just revamped its flying. They got it from GW2. WoW has essentially an unlimited budget.

Fully voiced campaign replacing your name or skipping it in the dialogue using terms like mate, friend, etc.
NPCs travelling with you and interacting better, giving you a lift and talking through the journey
Being able to talk to NPCs without getting off your mount
Carrying things on your mount for fetch quests i.e hold an egg..
Can be aggroed in air, water and on land. (mobs being in all 3 of these)

WoW borrows a lot of its idea's from other games. It just revamped its flying. They got it from GW2. WoW has essentially an unlimited budget.

Yet player count and budget goes up in 14 and they cut stuff to add new things...

So please enlighten me how i'm not asking for those things the other poster stated...

[thereal_aliceanders]

So did I! After years of having zero interest, I figured I would give it a shot. I'm also actually enjoying it, to the point that I paid for a year long subscription. There are things about wow that I'm not enjoying, but when I'm grinding I actually feel like I'm accomplishing something. I've also found a guild that has been very helpful.

[MoofiaBossVal]

Having played WoW since MoP, there is a ton I would like both games to take from each other. But there are some things I would like that will probably never be implemented in FF14. For example, responsive netcode for us Americans, as well as freedom of movement. It feels so good in WoW to press WASD and your character immedietely moves in any direction, to press a hotkey and your character instantly performs that attack. To be able to strafe off of a cliff and fall whever you want, and not run into an invisible wall which are seldom. I doubt FF14's responsiveness will ever be improved.

Another great thing about WoW is that you can mount up almost anywhere, so the mount you are AFKing on in town becomes just as much a part of your character customization/outfit as your actual armor pieces. It is also very fun to just press spacebar and immedietely begin dragonriding and be able to fly around town just for fun. Doubt mounts or a responsive flight system like that will ever be added.

WoW also releases most mounts in several different recolors, so if you like a particular model then there is probably some color variation of it that will appeal to you. Whereas in FF14, the vast majority of the mounts only come in the color scheme, so if if you don't like it then you are out of luck. This is something that FF14 could actually do with ease.

Another thing I quite like about WoW is the variety of real beastman races. You have several races with inhuman anatomy and posture, like the hunched over Orcs and Tauren and Worgen, or races with inverted legs/ankles like Tauren/Worgen/Draenei. Imagine if in FF14, the Vanu were playable (though by now I am far too attached to my Lala to race change to anything else). Hrothgar did not feel inhuman enough. They felt like men with a rubber mask on. Sadly FF14's races are just reproportioned humans.

On a technical level, WoW zones look much prettier to look at and take screenshots of than FF14. From the ground textures to the sculpting of the hills to the grass to the painted skyboxes, etc. FF14's open world zones generally do not look pretty all of the time. You have to go to certain spots and wait for a precise time of day to get a good picture. FF14 dungeons generally look great like the Endwalker patch dungeons. It is a shame that the outside world does not look like that.

WoW has more ways to customize your character visually. I was a roleplayer in a Tauren guild, and we liked to use a combination of the Winterfall Firewater + Darkmoon Firewater + Firewater Sorbet to massively increase our size to how we are depicted in canon art/the size of Cairne and Baine. I could also use an item to summon a bird called Pepe onto my head and get different outfits for him (not mutually exclusive with having a pet/minion out). There are various toys and items that can also add visual effects like turning you ghostly transluscent. There are various shapeshifting/transformation items, like the Soulshape toy that lets you turn into a ghost animal of your choosing, which I have macroed to my movement speed abilities. There are no such items in FF14.

Another thing I quite like about WoW is the emphasis on conflicting factions, namely Horde vs Alliance. Knowing that the enemy side was out to get you in the world as personafied by enemy players made the open world experience much more engaging, and also got people much more invested in their side and joining RP campaigns. Imagine a 300 man Horde army marching through Orgrimmar to the docks to deploy to a foreign continent and then 300 players marching to a battlefield. That never happens in FF14. Sadly doubt anything like this will ever be added.

One thing I will say about FF14 is that the jobs visually look much cooler and more flavorful than most WoW jobs. In WoW, the only really flavorful/memorable classes are paladin, druid, warlock, death knight, monk, and demon hunter. The other classes feel much more generic and unmemorable to me. But in FF14, Dragoons, Summoners, Dark Knights, Samurai, and Reapers look and feel cool. The other FF14 classes don't look as cool but are generally preferable to WoW's classes, ie FF14 Ninjas look cooler than WoW rogues, FF14 Black Mages over WoW mages, etc. One issue both games have is that neither has "cool" healers. I guess WoW has holy paladins, but I would also rather be the hero fighting in the thick of it as a tank or DPS on my paladin main than stand back and throw yellow sparkles at people.

WoW has two trinket slots that you can use to further customize how you play. The final patch of Dragonflight buffed up all of that expac's raid trinkets and put them on a vendor, so you could pick whichever trinkets felt the most fun or looked the coolest, like sending out orange and purple Shadowflame attacks.

Fun side quests

Yeah. WoW has a lot of timewaster sidequests but also several good ones too, be it fun for the gameplay or some neat little short story. Whereas in FF14, I once tried to 100% complete every zone but then quickly realized that the sidequests were almost all forgettable. In every expac.

Fully voiced campaign replacing your name or skipping it in the dialogue using terms like mate, friend, etc.

What baffles me is that WoW is voiced in something like 10 languages, and the main storyline has been fully voice acted since WoD and several of the sidequests too. But FF14 can't make their main story voice acted in only four languages.

Being able to queue in dungeons as all specialisations you are able to do on that job (i.e. for WAR: tank and DPS)

This one is fun if you play one of the three a hybrid classes of Druid, Paladin, or Monk that can play any role, since you alternate between tanking and healing. And you don't have to change your appearance either like in FF14 where you change armor classes when you change roles.

Even TWW's storyline is leaps and bounds better than DT.

I strongly disagree.

WoW's storytelling is fundamentally hamstringed because of the moment-to-moment experience. You walk up to an NPC and click him and read paragraphs of quest text which is located in a small window of your monitor. You accept tens of thousands of quests in this game, which means tens of thousands of paragraphs, so the player quickly learns to skim over the quest text and just hit accept. Then the NPC starts walking and talking, and may or may not summarize the quest text. Or characters will walk up to each other and have a chat, but during all of this your camera is zoomed out far away and you can't identify anyone's face and get attached to them, and you are being distracted by all of this other UI and stuff going on in the game world like being on the lookout for mobs that might aggro, treasure chests on your minimap, other quest objectives you can do nearby, etc.. Rinse repeat for hundreds to thousands of hours. Occasionally the story is punctuated by a cutscene (of varying quality), but the story is DOA due to the presentation.




FF14 gets me to care because the moment to moment presentation for the 500+ hour long story is at least serviceable, having multiple cutscenes for every single quest that gives you close up shots of the characters. I know people complain about canned animations, and I dislike them too, but they are at least serviceable enough (Genshin Impact, Honkai Star Rail, and Wuthering Waves are examples of ongoing 3D RPG storylines where the canned animations and average cutscene quality is too mediocre for me to tolerate). There is nothing else to distract you during these cutscenes, allowing you to focus on the story. The sidequests don't have cutscenes and are just WoW styled paragraphs of text that people will quickly stop reading due to the sheer number of them, so nobody does them.






Another major impediment is that the WoW player character - the character you are controlling and following around for tens of thousands of hours - is almost always a non-character in the story. He has zero ability to influence or direct what other characters or factions do, and the narrative hardly ever acknowledges that you exist, that you are now far and away the senior most experienced member of the Horde/Alliance, the great hero who saved everyone 20 times over, has participated in every single military campaign, who saved hundreds of small Tuskarr and Panda and Niffen villages and should be a chief ambassador, etc. He should be supreme commander of the Horde/Alliance by now like how the GW2 protagonist became commander of the Tyrian Pact. When the character you should be most invested in and has far and away the most screentime is a noncharacter in the story, that severely cripples people's investment in the story when the only thing that matters is other NPCs who people only see some of the time.

In GW2 your character is voice acted, which means he can try to reason with other characters or bark orders to others and they follow. And in both GW2 and FF14, the other characters and the narrative acknowledge that you exist and are a great experienced hero, and other people come to YOU to ask you to lead an army or to advocate for their royal claim because your name has more influence than even some princes now. Your character will probably not die, but he is actually involved in the story which makes the player much more like to give a damn.

Characters are much much much more likeable and we have a real and amazing antagonist in Xal'atath. Anduin and Alleria make things exciting when they come on screen, as apposed to, well, the exhaustion that was the entire cast of DT. The main cast puts the scions to shame.

Also strong disagree. I am much more invested into WoW's story than the average WoW player. I bought and read the books like War of the Clans, the War of the Ancients Trilogy, War Crimes, etc. I read the short stories on the website that nobody else reads. I have seen Anduin for his entire existance ever since he was introduced as a real character in the MoP legendary questline. The character is overall not unlikeable. He is inconsistently written and overall has done embarassingly little over the past 13 years since MoP, and also keeps rehashing his sulking arc. I would never put him in a top 100 favorite RPG party members list, whereas to me Urianger/Thancred/Estinien would make that list, and I would take almost all of the other Scions over Anduin too.

Alleria is a boring girlboss.

Xal'atath is a boring protagonist. In every appearance she just shows up to do dry monologues, be pretentious, and smirk. And you don't get to beat her up in a timely manner. FF14 has a lot of meh villains like the pope but at least you get to kill them and move on, whereas Xal'atath outstood her welcome very quickly.

Gotta give a special shout out to dungeons here too. I did a dungeon awhile ago that had me fly on my mount from airship to airship defeating mobs and then when I was fighting the boss, she would periodically do this big attack required me to jump on my mount and fly to avoid it and then spin back around, land and continue the fight on the airship deck. The whole time I was just sitting there in awe after 15 years of boring hallways and bosses that just require I take 2 steps to the left.

Yes, the fluidity of that is great. The encounters are generally very fun. Lots of memorable encounters like boarding the enemy airship in ICC, parachuting on Deathwing's back and clinging onto him as he barrel rolls trying to throw you off, fighting Hans'gar and Franzok on the conveyor belts with the stampers coming down from overhead, dodging the trains on Operator Thogar, chasing Sylvanas across the chains in Sanctum of Domination, mounting up to fly to chase Tindral, etc. I wish more games had exciting and varied encounters like WoW did.