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  1. #21
    Player
    Miki_L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2023
    Posts
    54
    Character
    Miki Loire
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    They really shouldn't have put in the rez restrictions and just have the players fight against the instance timer. It wouldn't be as bad if some newbie wiped the raid in one of the given 2-3 pulls you are allotted to each boss. As long as people understood why they wiped the first time and you manage to beat the boss in a later pull.

    They just put in rez restrictions because the older hard mode 48 mans had them. They didn't think at all if it made any sense with the actual fight design. If old thing worked in the past, then it must work every time! Same reasoning for the 72 person instances.
    (5)

  2. #22
    Player
    Jaltaer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2024
    Posts
    84
    Character
    Jeanne D'altaer
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Chasingstars View Post
    The raise limit is a baldesion arsenal quirk, which they based forked tower off that, same with the entrance system. As for body checks, they just feel its a sufficient way to challenge players.

    Not defending their words or actions, just what they stated themselves.
    Except in both BA and DRS, the limit on how many times you can be raised is only dependent on how many people brought the right logos or lost actions.
    The additional 3-strike restriction in FT is just pure BS, especially for something with a higher difficulty level than those 2 raids as well as a lot more ways for 1 person to cause a full raid wipe.
    (4)

  3. #23
    Player
    PaulusHamsteru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2023
    Posts
    158
    Character
    Finn Quinn
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 34
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeqbit View Post
    It just so happens that Yoshi-P mentioned in an interview recently that one of the issues in Forked Tower may have been that they placed so much emphasis on a player's responsibility that it affects everyone else too much.

    They should try to find another way if they don't intend it to be hardcore content though. What worked in Heavensward was:
    • Vuln stacks (whether just on you, or on the whole party)
    • Bleeds (whether just on you, or the whole party)
    • Placement objects. Weeping City is just a great example of this. You place webs, you place poison areas, tanks place adds, people place meteorites. Failing mechanics can result in things such as bleeds, or 50% of people wiping that didn't get onto a poorly-placed web.
    • Orb collecting so they don't overwhelm.
    These are examples of mechanics that all worked in Weeping City. It was a raid where people frequently wiped to bosses and abandoned, but it really wasn't that hard. I joined Ozma in progress a lot and cleared every time. But full-wiping a good 3 or so times through the run was fairly common, and that's the exact balance they should be aiming for in casual content. 3 wipes, which make you try harder and become better to overcome it.

    If things like bleeds and vulns get ignored due to our excessive mit and healing tools, then the only thing I could suggest is adding a mechanic to disable or reduce the effectiveness of our excessive mit and heals similar to the rez restriction.

    I should also say if they are looking for inspiration for casual raids that aren't a joke, but don't have body checks, they could draw inspiration from:
    • Weeping City
    • Castrum Lacus Litore
    • Dalriada (the 8-player boss wasn't tough enough in my opinion, but most runs were close leaving bodies everywhere)
    • Dun Scaith (it's not my highest ranked, but you get a lot of deaths to the first boss, and other bosses at least beat people up and make them have to try and hold it together)
    • Orbonne pre-nerf was alright. Not my highest ranked since in Stormblood they started getting safer, but not as safe as what came later...
    Maybe Yoshi needs to take a break and let someone else take the reins. Dude has been out of touch for way too many years.
    (4)

  4. #24
    Player
    Hyperia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,447
    Character
    Aileen Pureheart
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulusHamsteru View Post
    Maybe Yoshi needs to take a break and let someone else take the reins. Dude has been out of touch for way too many years.
    He has already done this, since they released 6.0, he has not been at the helm and letting his team make decisions and he gets a review in his weekly / monthly report meeting. They have already said that they have been making too many decisions based upon what they did in the past and not consulting Yoshi. Yoshi has been working on Tactics and two additional games since then, along with most of his senior devs. As such, we have a lot of new or recently promoted devs running the game. This is why it feels like they have forgotten what they learned back in 1.x and 2.x as there has been a brain drain since the senior devs went to other games.

    Subscriptions have been hemorrhaging, and the board / president have recognized that the lack of Yoshi is taking its toll, but they have shown no indication that they will release him from the other projects to address the issues in XIV. At this point, we have to accept that the game is what it is and SE has made their decision. We either A) keep playing and accept what we have, B) patch log and show up only for a few days or C) retire from the game.

    I won't blame Yoshi for any of the issues in XIV since 6.0 because he is producer and director in title only, he isn't working on this game anymore as the president and board have assigned him elsewhere. The board and president know if they formally take his name off the game, it will explode and their main revenue source for the company will go down in flames.

    The blame for the current state of the game is on upper management and the inexperience of the new devs running XIV, not on Yoshi.
    (7)
    Last edited by Hyperia; 07-16-2025 at 07:42 AM.

  5. #25
    Player
    Brandr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    149
    Character
    Bran' Bal
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperia View Post
    He has already done this, since they released 6.0, he has not been at the helm and letting his team make decisions and he gets a review in his weekly / monthly report meeting. They have already said that they have been making too many decisions based upon president and not consulting Yoshi. Yoshi has been working on Tactics and two additional games since then, along with most of his senior devs. As such, we have a lot of new or recently promoted devs running the game. This is why it feels like they have forgotten what they learned back in 1.x and 2.x as there has been a brain drain since the senior devs went to other games.

    Subscriptions have been hemorrhaging, and the board / president have recognized that the lack of Yoshi is taking its toll, but they have shown no indication that they will release him from the other projects to address the issues in XIV. At this point, we have to accept that the game is what it is and SE has made their decision. We either A) keep playing and accept what we have, B) patch log and show up only for a few days or C) retire from the game.

    I won't blame Yoshi for any of the issues in XIV since 6.0 because he is producer and director in title only, he isn't working on this game anymore as the president and board have assigned him elsewhere. The board and president know if they formally take his name off the game, it will explode and their main revenue source for the company will go down in flames.

    The blame for the current state of the game is on upper management and the inexperience of the new devs running XIV, not on Yoshi.
    That's what I've been thinking these days:

    The supposed supervisor is not working on the project. Naturally, with no leadership, everything starts to fall apart.
    (10)

  6. #26
    Player
    Alice_Rivers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2024
    Posts
    543
    Character
    Alice Rivers
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    I think it's fine to have player responsibility, what annoys me is specifically that the way they've designed things invalidates healers. Chaotic was on the right track with it's towers, the problem is that the damage from failing them was insane, having it so that a player failing a mechanic causes everyone to get a vuln stack and take a decent chunk of damage is fine if raidwide damage was regular and not life threatening. If you're fighting say 20% of your max HP every 20 seconds instead of 80% every 60 then a failed tower dishing out a vuln and 30-50% is a large hit and requires a healer to act but is far from run ending, you could even have two towers go off if the tanks and healers are paying attention and mit/shield accordingly and you survive 60-80% hit and two vulns, then the healers lives get really interesting as they have to manage those vulns. Further to such a design philosophy you can make it so that when everyone has to stand in a tower they get an effect that is cleansed by the tower - Could be a bleed, could be a damage down, could be a vuln (wouldn't that be fun?) could be a doom even once in a while, so when you fail the mechanic not only does the party notice but you get a personal punishment.
    (2)

  7. #27
    Player
    PercibelTheren's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2023
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,034
    Character
    Percibel Theren
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    My solution to body checks would be for them to require 80% of the raid or so. Make sure most people are still standing, but give some leeway.
    (1)

  8. #28
    Player
    Jeeqbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    7,646
    Character
    Oscarlet Oirellain
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperia View Post
    He has already done this, since they released 6.0, he has not been at the helm and letting his team make decisions and he gets a review in his weekly / monthly report meeting. They have already said that they have been making too many decisions based upon what they did in the past and not consulting Yoshi.
    He is absolutely at the helm. He's the director. But when there is a really big team with 15 years of procedures that have slowly been created, there is a whole pipeline things go through before Yoshi-P checks it out, tests it and gives feedback/approval/a request to adjust it, and somewhere in that pipeline that has become overburdened with procedures, they felt rushed enough to ignore some of those procedures (which were meant to be to consult Yoshi-P).
    Yoshi has been working on Tactics and two additional games since then
    Yoshi-P made it clear recently at the Anime Expo that the main thing he is working on is FF14. There is a difference between being a producer and a director. When his studio makes other games, he is not necessarily the director (person who does the day-to-day management and vision of it), but rather just the producer and supervisor that checks in and makes sure they have everything they need and gives advice. This is fairly obvious because you can't really direct lots of things at once. Even FF16 had a different director that oversaw the day-to-day development.
    As such, we have a lot of new or recently promoted devs running the game.
    This is true but "new" is relative. Some of them are "new" in the sense they started in Stormblood. Some of them are "new" in the sense they started in Shadowbringers. Some of them started in Endwalker etc.
    This is why it feels like they have forgotten what they learned back in 1.x and 2.x as there has been a brain drain since the senior devs went to other games.
    It's pretty clear that the battle developers who worked on Stormblood participated in the development of recent raids given they have been interviewed about them a lot of times lately. They know exactly what happened in Stormblood. Their goal was to replicate Eureka a lot because of the feedback that Bozja "didn't get people into the world enough". While I agree we just were able to AFK a lot waiting for CEs, that wasn't the case for Skirmishes, reflect farming or killing the NM bosses, so it really wasn't the problem they think it was.

    That's why it doesn't make sense how it turned out this way, because there were members of their team who would surely remember Eureka's issues. Their explanation isn't that "they never worked on Eureka", but rather that they were in a rush and didn't have time to think about how all their decisions would come together.

    My best guess is the decision to add ciphers was probably based on the success of the duel count system they created to make duel entry fair, but it's not the same and probably if they'd had any time to think about and plan it properly, they'd have realized that.
    I won't blame Yoshi for any of the issues in XIV since 6.0 because he is producer and director in title only, he isn't working on this game anymore as the president and board have assigned him elsewhere.
    It's true that he has company leader responsibilities as well that he didn't have before, and if anything has a big impact on his focus it's probably that, rather than little graphical overhauls of old games.
    The blame for the current state of the game is on upper management and the inexperience of the new devs running XIV, not on Yoshi.
    As much as I love and respect Yoshi-P, the buck stops with the leader. I wholeheartedly believe any and all pros and cons of the game are 100% within his control.

    It was him that saved the game after 1.0. It was him that saw a story created that lots of people resonated with and appreciated. But it was also him that saw stress removed from the game to the point of it being boring for a lot of people. It was also him that created all these procedures that ultimately tripped up the development team and resulted in the bugs and issues with recent patches. It's also he who decided that the focus should be on the newest patch at the expense of addressing issues with old systems such as FATE sync and quality of life. It's also he who believes all the excuses given to him about it being "impossible" to improve the housing system, to "carry data with you", to overcome infrastructure issues, despite that no other MMORPG has such issues and despite that it is a programmer's job description to make it possible to do things that were previously impossible.

    FF16 being heavily FF14-inspired in its design is also a reflection of how it is their team's vision and mindset being imprinted on it. That's why FF7R is a lot different.
    (2)
    Last edited by Jeeqbit; 07-16-2025 at 08:23 AM.

  9. #29
    Player
    Hanzz96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Posts
    141
    Character
    Alyxandria Ashwren
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Saraide View Post
    It has been a steady progression before p8s and it's not rooted in people complaining about dps checks, it's rooted in the bloated mitigation tools we have. With their refusal to address this, body checks really are the only avenue of difficulty they have left. It's gotten so bad that pandora's box, a mechanic designed to be tank lb3'd, can be survived without it by pooling everything together.
    Sure you can mit Pandora's box but ahh good luck with polarising afterwards with nothing left.

    I agree body checks have to go but taking away mit isn't the way
    (0)

  10. #30
    Player
    Maltothoris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    743
    Character
    Malto Thoris
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    So here's a little followup from the author's blusky. https://bsky.app/profile/theswweet.b.../3lthplgw6vs2e

    He's very aware of the common complaints, and while I didn't really have the right spot to put it in the interview, it's clear that Dawntrail's struggles frustrate him just as much as the playerbase. Sometimes the way the team intends content to be received isn't how it lands.
    (0)

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