Oh, where do I begin... first, my apologies for reformating your post a bit as I will go through specific points at a time and I think it might help readability.
Quote Originally Posted by DallsBeep View Post
[1] Frontline should be the casual mode. The stakes are always higher in CC because you as an individual player have much more personal responsibility than you ever will in FL, this is regardless of whether it's a ranked match or not. In fact, removing the distinction between casual and ranked would highly encourage players of all skill levels to take the matches more seriously overall.

[2] They should funnel players who are new to PVP into FL so they can learn the basics. They already basically do this by giving players a daily bonus for it, but they could do more.

[3] The basis of this thread is the fact that ranked queue dies, that's for a few reasons which are well documented. Higher ranks it's because people get their targeted ranking and then stop and there's no incentive to keep playing. Lower rank it's because most people who are really interested in playing ranked have already surpassed Gold tier and probably a lot due to the anxiety you're talking about.

[4] No, I don't think if you collapsed to casual queue completely that ranked queue would die off, especially with the proposed change of linking ranking to job. It would have the exact opposite effect. I'm sure there are some issues it would cause, that will be the case with any change normally, but killing off the queue? I really don't see that being a problem at all.

[5] Casual players still need to get their wonderous tales done, they still want to fill out their challenge log. That's something no one ever really takes into account.

[6]All that kind of change would do would directly address the fact that lower tier ranked dies off, and plenty of other changes to reward structure could easily address higher tier ranked matches dying off as well.
1.) You are mistaking "stakes" for "individual impact" here. Stakes are there if a loss matters more than in other environments (i.e. losing Rating in Ranked for instance), individual impact increases in modes with less players in the instance, so 5v5 Crystalline Conflict gives individual players the most impact out of all modes. That is not a bad thing, this means Player XY performing an action leads to a more noticeable outcome than in Frontlines and is a good way to learn your core kit. Frontlines are also much more punishing regarding the positioning aspect as you are potentially being stared down by up to 24/48 players if you are out of position.

The basics are best learned in a smaller environment - 5v5 CC. By removing/merging Casual CC and "only" having Ranked, you remove an essential training environment for a mode where it matters. You cannot learn the nuances of Crystalline Conflict in Frontlines. Between the role action, differences in objectives, reduced damage per individual and more enemy players and their toolkits to account for, it offers a poor learning environment for future Rankers.

We literally "had" this problem with Feast Training due to the forced-role system - due to queue times, newbies were forced to learn Feast immediately in Ranked, which made for a piss-poor learning experience and caused many to avoid the mode because of this.


2.) They do this because its a 72-man mode. It's essentially similar to roulettes, there to encourage at least once a day to help fill the queue (per player). There could be "more" yes, by also making "Daily Challenge: Rival Wings" (large-scale mode) and "Daily Challenge: Crystalline Conflict" (to encourage 5v5 Casual interaction) - one for reach.


3.) Kind of, close. Correct on the upper ranks, there is no incentive to keep playing for them (no Top XY rewards like back in feast, no Ranked Currency to spend on a lot MORE things than Hellhound upgrades). Lower ranks its actually a bit more than that - there is many that might forever be Bronze, Silver or Gold - which is fine, these players are the foundation for anyone to keep playing. But because there is no incentive for the lower tiers (think Ranked Currency, not Commend. Crystals), there is a pool of players saying "whats the point, I can't climb to Diamond anyways and I get nothing for being here".

This lengthens queue times, which affects a different pool of players that doesn't want to wait in a queue to have "balanced matches" forever and instead goes for 5v5 Casual or Frontlines (if at all) - which is a death spiral, as you can tell. We had this exact phenomenon happen multiple times in PvP, even Frontlines - and it essentially all boils down to "incentives not found".


4.) I'm gonna address this one more time, under the assumption that if a merge of both queues happen, it would retain Ranked Mode's matchmaking for skill tiers (i.e. a Platinum player can be matched with Diamond or Gold, but not Crystal+ or Silver-Bronze).

Casual Mode's distinct property is that it forms matches regardless of skill tiers in Ranked, which allows for matches to be created much more quickly. It also does not affect ranked so you can learn and experiment with your job rather than just stay with cookie-cutter "do only this" strats - or you could play FOR FUN. (reminder that Frontline is NOT a good environment to learn 5v5 job impact and strategies)

Ranked Mode's distinct property is that player queues are separated by skill tiers, so a Diamond wont be stomping on Golds and Silvers. Ideally matches are much closer to its respective skill tier and offers a general challenge, it will make you use what you learned and practiced, either in previous Ranked matches or in Casual.

If you full-merge Casual + Ranked into one mode, you will sacrifice either:
  • A) match quality & Ranked integrity by making matchmaking ignore individual ranks and skill tiers (i.e. why is it even Ranked)
  • B) fast queues by matchmaking with a skill-tier based system (i.e. nothing casual about it)
These are mutually exclusive. Without a stable onboarding and churn of players (which we DO NOT HAVE thanks to a lack of meaningful incentives), pulling on one side will affect the other. Furthermore, by going for Option B, everyone's Rank and therefore ability to play the mode is now at stake if they don't climb at equal paces with everyone else. You are forcing two or more fundamentally different player groups into one and tell them to deal with it, regardless what their goal in 5v5 is.

On the matter of linking Ranking to job (or role), I think you are not seeing the issue at all with it here. Currently queue times are affected by onboarding (new players), retention (players who stay for longer) and churn (players who quit) in short human resources. They are also affected by skill tiers, naturally as players progress (or don't which is a reality we must face).

If you add job-based Rank, you add a third layer of things that will affect queue times, which can either be "it added absolutely nothing" because players don't switch their jobs anymore because onetricking for higher ranks is now encouraged since only your highest job now counts, or creates a scenario where Crystal player "John FFXIV, the Warrior" can't get his match because "Brave Lee, the Paladin" and others decided they wanted more access to jobs in higher ranks for some odd reason. It will also lead to Brave Lee curbstomping half the players he moves across if he is any good, something many do not like happening in Casual in the first place.


5.) Wondrous Tails, Challenge log - former can be done without 5v5 with up to 15 duties that you can also repeat, latter is just wolfmarks. They are in the grand scheme of things negligible


6.) Your "solution/fix" is forcing everyone into one pool, disregarding what the individual modes' purpose and their players' interest is supposed to be in a ham-fisted attempt to solve the "queue crisis of Ranked" like Thanos snapping his fingers. It does not organically address that the incentive structure for Ranked is awful across the entire board since Season 1 and in fact will only excarcebate things with your job-rank link.

I'm gonna say this not as someone looking critically at design, but as a player - I want my limited time I can spent on FFXIV to be rewarded with something I can put on display on my character. If the activity that I intend to put time into to learn its nuances, get good at and excel in doesn't respect my time with adequate rewards or benefits, then I will not do the activity.


Mind you Dalls, this is nothing against you, no hard feelings - I am just annoyed at the concept/idea and criticize that instead, because it has been thrown in the ring (also dissected and refuted) multiple times. In the end, you believe in that and I believe in something else.