Pld buff or War nerf in 1.22?

[Alerith]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN7dYDYfvVg

Make swords more damaging.

[Enfarious]

Stacking BLMs is happening because the developers did not learn that huge burst damage, regardless of what limitations you want to put on a class, will always trump DoT. Sure, some may think that a BLM should always be burst damage, but I'm more of the mind that I'd rather see more frequent spell casting and less damage per spell to bring things down to par. BLM trumps others between that burst damage as well as having the advantage of range.
Depends on how far we go with it. If we separate the DPS aspect from the tank aspect, that's not exactly a nerf.

It doesn't have to be a nerf, your absolutely right, rampage == reduced attack + increased defense, berserk == work how it should and you have a hot swappable tank/dd but not both at the same time.
Yeah I've always been of the mind that mages were OP'd, I mostly keep my mouth shut though, it's enough to get all the hate posts for saying WAR is OP'd lol

The rest is merely ranting:
On the mage front though, yeah I was just running w/ a thm friend while leveling war we're equal level, his gear is gimp mine isn't. His dmg vs. mine:
Nuke 700 against ele weak mobs(4 of them)
Me 1 mob at a time 80~90 AA so 8~10 AAs to match 1 nuke @ ~4secs delay == 32~40 seconds to deal what he did in 3
Me 1 mob at a time again WSs, we'll say for arguments that I don't miss and have 3k tp. 125~175/hit, 3~4 WSs w/ 2 secs animation takes me 6~8 seconds to match his single 3 second attack.
But he did it to 4 mobs, which means that in all those cases I need 4x as long to match his single attack spell. That's not OP'd at all, I think they should give mages better dmg output w/ more HP so that we can just stack 8x WHM/BLM for everything, all these other jobs aren't really useful ...

Sorry I went kind of sideways there. Yeah things remain unbalanced, but they're working to fix it, hopefully someday it occurs to someone that spreading dmg over an area should also reduce that dmg by an amount equivalent to the area affected. If I throw a water balloon holding 1 gallon of water and hit 1 person they get hit w/ 1 gallon. If I take that same 1 gallon and put it in a pail and just splash people in an area with that gallon, unless something really extraordinary happens not 1 person will get hit with a full gallon.

Damn that was more sideways.

[SwordCoheir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN7dYDYfvVg

Make swords more damaging.

Actually the base damage of the Swords probably could use an overall buff, I can understand Swords needing to be weaker than other weapons in order to make up for the speed but let me put it this way.

Lowest DMG Ifrit Weapon- Ifrit's Blade= 102 DMG
2nd Ifrits Weapon- Ifrit't Claws= 131
3rd- Ifrit's Harpoon = 151
4th- Ifrit's Bow/Cobalt Arrow = 158
5th- Ifrit's Axe = 171

Seriously 29 base damage difference from the Ifrit's Blade to the next weakest Ifrit's weapon. MNK can get away with being 20 points lower than the Harpoon because it has Elemental Fists, attacks 2-3x a around, and a slightly faster speed than 2h weapons as a way to cover ground.

PLD doesn't have the advantage MNK does however, and weapon speed doesn't make up for the lower Base Damage gap especially when my PLD's hitting Ifrit for 10 and WSing for 100-200 damage, but DRG's, WARs, and BRD's are hitting 25-40 a hit throwing out 300-1k Weaponskills. The Enmity Adjustment is only a temporary band-aid, and falls short the longer fights drag on.

I might be sounding a bit selfish saying this, but there SHOULD NOT be more than 50DMG difference between the lowest and highest DMG weapons of similar types (IE:Ifrit's Blade should be a minimum of 121DMG which is within 50 of Ifrit's Axe 171DMG). I say this because, with this current trend with weapons PLD will only suffer more and more when/if the level cap ever rises, because that gap will continue to grow and grow.

If you would like an example of how this may turn out on the current trend, I point you in the direction of FFXI. Post Lv75 where Base weapon damage from 2h Weapons eclipses 1h weapons so significantly, 1h jobs have no place in a majority of endgame content without a secondary quirk like Treasure Hunter.

EDIT: Sorry got ranty. XD Should have been in PLD forums.

[Duelle]

Yeah I've always been of the mind that mages were OP'd, I mostly keep my mouth shut though, it's enough to get all the hate posts for saying WAR is OP'd lol

----

Yeah things remain unbalanced, but they're working to fix it, hopefully someday it occurs to someone that spreading dmg over an area should also reduce that dmg by an amount equivalent to the area affected.

Nerfing AoE won't change the fact that even single target BLM is pretty powerful because of high spell damage, which justifies stacking BLMs even more because you can do large amounts of damage over a short period of time. Sure, the glass cannon paradigm exists, but it doesn't pan out in games with multiple classes that are vying for the same role. AKA here. Stacking BLMs shouldn't be the answer to everything. Just like Stacking WARs shouldn't be the answer to everything.

I might be sounding a bit selfish saying this, but there SHOULD NOT be more than 50DMG difference between the lowest and highest DMG weapons of similar types (IE:Ifrit's Blade should be a minimum of 121DMG which is within 50 of Ifrit's Axe 171DMG). I say this because, with this current trend with weapons PLD will only suffer more and more when/if the level cap ever rises, because that gap will continue to grow and grow.

I'm not saying it's Matsui....but it's Matsui. j/k (or am I?)

Seriously, someone they brought over from FFXI has a thing against swords. Swords were among the weakest weapons in that game, and now lo' and behold, they are the weakest weapon here. I don't think it's a coincidence, either. Anyway, yes, swords could use a bump in weapon damage.

[Rydin]

At the end of the day... the only fix needed is for PLD to be able to generate more enmity than WAR, but not through dealing more damage (That would make them pretty much the same class), that way the DDs in the party can make up for the PLD doing less damage because they can, in turn, do more Damage since PLD would be able to generate more enmity

However PLD is made to generate more enmity than WAR, there are a ton of ways to make it happen.

But that way... if it is a fight where enmity is not an issue... then people will choose WAR..... If it is a fight where DDs have to hold back and go red a lot, then people will choose PLD... and Voila! they are both useful

An added bonus would be to make PLD have the best chance of surviving as the tank of many boss fights...
Not necessary, but I'd like it

[Duelle]

However PLD is made to generate more enmity than WAR, there are a ton of ways to make it happen.

But that way... if it is a fight where enmity is not an issue... then people will choose WAR..... If it is a fight where DDs have to hold back and go red a lot, then people will choose PLD... and Voila! they are both useful

An added bonus would be to make PLD have the best chance of surviving as the tank of many boss fights...
Not necessary, but I'd like it

All this does is bring back "fodder tank vs boss tank", which is just as bad as WAR being picked over PLD for the tank role.

[Rydin]

All this does is bring back "fodder tank vs boss tank", which is just as bad as WAR being picked over PLD for the tank role.

No... it would depend on the boss....

Like in a fight with an NM that has ultra high (Physical and Magic) defense, you'd want a WAR because the DD's are probably not going to have to worry about pulling hate since their DPS will be lower

But in a fight where the DD's are holding back or going red, You'll want a PLD for the extra enmity.. which gives the DDs extra breathing room

So both would still be viable in both fights... one would just excel more than the other depending on the situation....

There is no other scenario where both are viable....

[SwordCoheir]

No... it would depend on the boss....

Like in a fight with an NM that has ultra high (Physical and Magic) defense, you'd want a WAR because the DD's are probably not going to have to worry about pulling hate since their DPS will be lower

But in a fight where the DD's are holding back or going red, You'll want a PLD for the extra enmity.. which gives the DDs extra breathing room

So both would still be viable in both fights... one would just excel more than the other depending on the situation....

There is no other scenario where both are viable....

That's actually where problem lies, the base damage of our weapons affect our damage output affecting, our enmity generation (especially with Fast>Flatblade) as a whole very significantly. If my PLD is only doing a 100 damage 2 step combo with a 4.6x enmity boost do you think it would hold out long against a DDs who's doing 3 step combos for 3x-4x our damage each WS.

Yes we got spike hate abilities like Wardrum, Flash, Rampart, and Voke to help close that hate gap, and other jobs have enmity reducing abilities to help make it manageable, but those recast timers catch up to us eventually causing problems.

But another issue arises altogether, they can give us all the enmity boosts they want but once that hate cap is reached your doing little more than taking the blows for the group. Which is fine and all, but if you can't generate more hate, and your not really doing a fraction of the damage the DD's are, everyone else can easily catch up and cap hate then things get messy. So the mob isn't dead, hate is bouncing around, and your not even taking blows what else is there for you to do really? At least with a little damage boost to our weapons it would help with enmity generation, make our damage at least a little less pathetic, contribute more to taking out the mob before hate cap is reached, and help avoid such a scenario when/if they give us that challenging content people have been begging for.

[Duelle]

But another issue arises altogether, they can give us all the enmity boosts they want but once that hate cap is reached your doing little more than taking the blows for the group. Which is fine and all, but if you can't generate more hate, and your not really doing a fraction of the damage the DD's are, everyone else can easily catch up and cap hate then things get messy.

Wait, wait, wait. XIV also suffers from enmity cap?

I was under the impression that they had learned that capping hate/threat/enmity is a stupid idea because your dynamics go out the window once the cap is hit, and had thus favored a system where enmity decays at a set rate for DPS and a slower rate for tank classes.

[Rydin]

That's actually where problem lies, the base damage of our weapons affect our damage output affecting, our enmity generation (especially with Fast>Flatblade) as a whole very significantly. If my PLD is only doing a 100 damage 2 step combo with a 4.6x enmity boost do you think it would hold out long against a DDs who's doing 3 step combos for 3x-4x our damage each WS.

thats why PLD need more enmity generation than WAR, but not from damage

Yes we got spike hate abilities like Wardrum, Flash, Rampart, and Voke to help close that hate gap, and other jobs have enmity reducing abilities to help make it manageable, but those recast timers catch up to us eventually causing problems.

But another issue arises altogether, they can give us all the enmity boosts they want but once that hate cap is reached your doing little more than taking the blows for the group. Which is fine and all, but if you can't generate more hate, and your not really doing a fraction of the damage the DD's are, everyone else can easily catch up and cap hate then things get messy. So the mob isn't dead, hate is bouncing around, and your not even taking blows what else is there for you to do really? At least with a little damage boost to our weapons it would help with enmity generation, make our damage at least a little less pathetic, contribute more to taking out the mob before hate cap is reached, and help avoid such a scenario when/if they give us that challenging content people have been begging for.

In a normal party setting, how often is the hate cap reached? I'd vote to remove the cap.... but even with it in, it's a theoretical limitation