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  1. #1
    Player
    Valence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    4,461
    Character
    Sunie Dakwhil
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mawlzy View Post
    I'm really glad you gave this description, Jeeqbit, because it will deter players from getting involved in this nonsense.

    The majority of people who get online to play a game, have absolutely no interest in following instructions, then following directions. They already have a job that is far more rewarding than that.

    Moreover, if this process makes the fight "trivial," what on earth is the point?

    Apparently it's not the casuals at all that fear challenge, it's those that only engage in content that requires them to march up and down on the parade ground following the orders of a drill sergeant.
    Yeah that's why I found my run of BA extremely underwhelming when I did it last expansion. The whole concept of the instance looked pretty interesting, but ultimately it's been figured out, and there is no individual responsibility beyond the few leaders and it's all about following instructions. You have nothing to do at your level in terms of agency. And even if you wanted to try something, you can't because discipline has to be tight since a single mistake can potentially wipe the instance or kill half the party (with limited raises).

    All in all it always boils down to a single denominator in XIV modern design, which is body checks, or the step sibling called "someone steps on the wrong spot everybody wipes and you have little to no control over it". That's the only way the devs are able to make this type of pve challenging, because otherwise people can just raise each other ad nauseam like in all casual modes. You can for example see this in contrast between the Mhach/Ivalice raids, notably with Ozma or TG Cid (both got nerfed for this reason) where mistakes could snowball into a wipe (but those fights back then still had the decency to offer margin for recovery and skill expression for supports), vs Nier raids that came after, with possibly a lot more individual casualties than any other raid, but where wiping was quite unusual, because there is no body check whatsoever, or no snowballing mechanic.

    What I did like in the old pve model is that it was less about binary body checks or "gotcha into raid wipe", and more about snowballing death effects that people had to get under control and potentially save under specific margins, which Mhach and Ivalice back then did very well (in combination with the old battle system). BA and consorts on the other hand, try to insert walls that are more tied to flawless execution, something that's been more and more central to any extreme/savage+ fight and culminates in ultimates.
    (9)

  2. #2
    Player Mawlzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2023
    Posts
    2,824
    Character
    Jessa Marko
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Valence View Post
    Yeah that's why I found my run of BA extremely underwhelming when I did it last expansion. The whole concept of the instance looked pretty interesting, but ultimately it's been figured out, and there is no individual responsibility beyond the few leaders and it's all about following instructions. You have nothing to do at your level in terms of agency. And even if you wanted to try something, you can't because discipline has to be tight since a single mistake can potentially wipe the instance or kill half the party (with limited raises).
    Mmmm Jeeqbit described the Discord implementation of FT as simply following positional call-outs, so that all that is required is pressing the movement buttons. I assume it's helpful if that is coupled with pressing your actions buttons in a pre-determined rotation. But honestly if I wanted to exercise my fingers in that way I'd pick up my guitar.
    (4)