Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

[Ajisaii]

This thread is a lot funnier when you realise a lot of people here are pushing 40 arguing why it's okay to kill randoms and bm their corpse in a video game because their discord buddies didn't get into the raid

[Supersnow845]

We are reaching unhinged rant levels of messages here, like most of your points don’t even make any sense

Hardcore players didn’t like chaotic, theres a reason it died on launch. Because everyone and their mum wanted BA ozma but instead got 24 man savage. Same as body checks. The overwhelming negative response to EW’s body check galore is why DT’s savages are actually better. This just echos the discussion around the hairstyle in chaotic in 7.1. People who didn’t do chaotic or weren’t interesting for some reason thought that just because square targeted the content too high and went into savage territory that savage people had to like it or had to be grateful they were being content at the expense of the casuals when the hardcore players didn’t want it either

Who wanted what job design is debatable. More hardcore players are responsible for the lowering of the ceiling of a lot of jobs (make buffs align by default feedback in ShB as an example) but casual players are also responsible for the lowering of the skill floors (I play a WAR and if I even have to pretend there is a healer in this dungeon I’m reporting everyone). Neither has no responsibility but that’s to be expected in a fluid community. There is also just the fact that square is awful at responding to feedback in a useful way

However none of this is relevant to the fact that screaming hardcore vs casual isn’t the problem that’s going on here. The discords are fine to accept anyone and they will try to help. It’s just “join run that was organised 4 days in advance at the expense of someone who organised then rely on said organisation to clear” isn’t the “right” way to interact with people trying to get the content completed. You shouldn’t be attacked if you do join but you also have to admit you are benefiting from their organisation while also hindering it. It’s your right to enter the content, it’s not your right to enter the content and benefit from pre organisation that you didn’t help with

The discords aren’t intentionally excluding anyone out of a weird “I’m a hardcore player so I’m better than you”. They are trying to minimise the chance the run fails due to random player wildcards. “Sniper” is just a colloquial term from BA discourse. Few people actually mean it in an intentionally offensive way

[Tyintheron]

It’s your right to enter the content, it’s not your right to enter the content and benefit from pre organisation that you didn’t help with

Except that's how the system is set up. Clearly the INTENT is to allow a grab bag of randos to blindly stumble their way to victory rather than just premade groups galore. I get that that doesn't really WORK, but it's clearly still the INTENT, so waving around the word "rights" as if it's some set-in-stone rule feels like an overblown way to self-justify the hostility on display.

The amount of "if you even POTENTIALLY inconvenience me it's ok for me to be a jerk to you" in this thread is really, really troubling.

[Supersnow845]

Except that's how the system is set up. Clearly the INTENT is to allow a grab bag of randos to blindly stumble their way to victory rather than just premade groups galore. I get that that doesn't really WORK, but it's clearly still the INTENT, so waving around the word "rights" as if it's some set-in-stone rule feels like an overblown way to self-justify the hostility on display.

The amount of "if you even POTENTIALLY inconvenience me it's ok for me to be a jerk to you" in this thread is really, really troubling.

Yes it’s intended for a grab bag of randoms to complete it even if that doesn’t work at all.

However there is a difference between “grab bag of randoms” and fully organised run where 1-2 spaces is taken by a random. If “grab bag of randoms” actually worked the organisation wouldn’t be necessary anyway

As the person who responded to OP stated they still offered a hand but in a grab bag of randoms nobody owes you anything anyway beyond bot actively griefing. Especially since the person who replied to OP showed OP died due to their own mistake, nobody killed them

So by the standards of grab bag of randoms the organised group did nothing wrong anyway

[Mawlzy]

Except that's how the system is set up. Clearly the INTENT is to allow a grab bag of randos to blindly stumble their way to victory rather than just premade groups galore. I get that that doesn't really WORK, but it's clearly still the INTENT, so waving around the word "rights" as if it's some set-in-stone rule feels like an overblown way to self-justify the hostility on display.

The amount of "if you even POTENTIALLY inconvenience me it's ok for me to be a jerk to you" in this thread is really, really troubling.

This is a really good summary.

Some sort of flow chart might be useful to best illustrate this, but roughly:

Casual content drops in OC --> the capstone is FT --> the entry method is (a really bad) FFA --> BA veterans realize this is not puggable --> Discords create mega-statics --> unaware randos have the temerity to attempt to engage with FT --> mega-statics justify ToS violations on the grounds SE produced awful content again.

[Atreus]

Everyone should stop organizing runs and let the illustrious citizens of this thread do Forked Tower the way they say it was intended. Pure, unplanned, uncommunicated. I would love to see all the clears roll in.

[Mawlzy]

Everyone should stop organizing runs and let the illustrious citizens of this thread do Forked Tower the way they say it was intended. Pure, unplanned, uncommunicated. I would love to see all the clears roll in.

Maybe the illustrious citizens just want to see inside the gate.

[Supersnow845]

Maybe the illustrious citizens just want to see inside the gate.

I mean I know you are saying that mockingly but this returns to the idea that people are acting like discords are actively blocking entry to this content

If you just wanna go in, gawk at the scenery then leave it shouldn’t be that hard to force forked open with equally interested randoms in any of the 17 instances that have auroral mirages up

[Mawlzy]

I mean I know you are saying that mockingly but this returns to the idea that people are acting like discords are actively blocking entry to this content

If you just wanna go in, gawk at the scenery then leave it shouldn’t be that hard to force forked open with equally interested randoms in any of the 17 instances that have auroral mirages up

I can imagine how people might perceive that Discords are doing precisely that, particularly given the frustration and disappointment currently pervading the non-raiding community.

After the fiasco of CAR, Cosmic Explo, and now FT, the number of interested randoms in any content in FFXIV has fallen off a cliff.

So in that sense the problem has solved itself.

[Supersnow845]

I can imagine how people might perceive that Discords are doing precisely that, particularly given the frustration and disappointment currently pervading the non-raiding community.

After the fiasco of CAR, Cosmic Explo, and now FT, the number of interested randoms in any content in FFXIV has fallen off a cliff.

So in that sense the problem has solved itself.

I mean that is not remotely the discords fault and I’d argue some of that is even developer playerbase mismatch the playerbase is attributing to each other.

Cosmic was totally fine as casual content. It makes sense that A ranks are harder, not engaging with the higher A ranks doesn’t block you from anything. Just because content is causal doesn’t mean 100% of it should be totally accessible to the lowest common denominator. Cosmic struck a really good balance there as literally the only thing not accessible to super casual people is the achievement for Golding every mission. Like even the “of the stars” titles can be earned from B ranks if you want. As for chaotic this seems to have devolved into casuals angry that the high end community was prioritised over them without realising the high end community doesn’t like chaotic either and yet somehow this is the high end community’s fault?

As for forked itself that just circles back to the original problem. If you can’t get enough people even randomly to force forked open then how can you also be mad at the discords for filling squares own void of content design