Healer aggroing DG trend

[Sorainthy]

They're not trying to be malicious, it means you should try picking up the pace and tank more than one pack at a time.. In most dungeons, you can easily pull everything from one gate to another and not have an issue unless you're horribly undergeared.

If your plan was to already do that and the healer is running ahead anyways, then just grab aggro off them when you catch up.

Dungeons are dull, especially after running them for the 50th time so no one really wants to spend more than 15 mins clearing something because they're going 1 pack at a time.

So you are forcing others to adopt to your wishful playstyle instead of communicate.
It is and always will be a double edged sword.

Tank can and shall be able to tank with what he is comfy. 1 Pack? 2 Packs? All Packs? Let him decide.
I would and will never with randoms directly run for all packs.

Most random tanks I played with are btw nice and start with one pack. Simple to see if DPS and Healers are awake. As soon as they see me switching to AoE Rotation they start running to another pack - if a heal also came in - if not. Well then 1 Pack at a time.

And if anyone decides to not communicate, not touch bases to see if we can clear quickly but just runs ahead: Take em. You go DPS/Healer.

Also love the comment "If you are behind the party you are doing something wrong". No. Healer and DPS behind Tank. Not that hard. Cause just you ran the dungeon 50th times does not mean the others did.

[ThurinTurambar]

And if anyone decides to not communicate, not touch bases to see if we can clear quickly but just runs ahead: Take em. You go DPS/Healer.

From what i remember "you pull you tank" can actually be a reportable offense if done out of spite.

Also seriously, when you choose to play tank, either cuz you're after the roulette bonus or fast queue - do your job.
1 pack at a time is pace of parties with tank missing.

Ultimately pretty much every dungeon can be cleared without tank. Hence the conclusion that tank's job is to speed up the completion.
Big part of that is grabbing the mobs you can handle as fast as you can - game offers plenty of tools for that: Sprint, gapclosers, ranged attacks, ogcds like flood of darkness, Provoke.

These days the dungeons are pretty standardised, the most recent 'dangerous' wall to wall pull i can remember is in Shadowbringers. Most of other dungeons are following a set pattern: 2 trash packs, wall, 2 trash packs, boss.
The arguement about not doing a dungeon 50 times falls flat as you have been doing pretty much the same dungeon in different flavours for your whole MSQ experience, so it should be almost muscle memory how you handle pulls.

[BelphegorLachrymarum]

i found it wierd bc all the game its like stantard to the tank to aggro things, and suddenly its whatever... but reading yall posts made me realised the problem is much deeper: healers complaints about their role and bored experienced players.

and none is doing one pack at a time, you guys are wild to assume that

[Eastwall]

You can act like some jp tank l met. I pulled the extra pack for the tank, kept the tank alive. Apparently the tank didn't like it, Then the tank just left,lol.

[Supersnow845]

So you are forcing others to adopt to your wishful playstyle instead of communicate.
It is and always will be a double edged sword.

Tank can and shall be able to tank with what he is comfy. 1 Pack? 2 Packs? All Packs? Let him decide.
I would and will never with randoms directly run for all packs.

Most random tanks I played with are btw nice and start with one pack. Simple to see if DPS and Healers are awake. As soon as they see me switching to AoE Rotation they start running to another pack - if a heal also came in - if not. Well then 1 Pack at a time.

And if anyone decides to not communicate, not touch bases to see if we can clear quickly but just runs ahead: Take em. You go DPS/Healer.

Also love the comment "If you are behind the party you are doing something wrong". No. Healer and DPS behind Tank. Not that hard. Cause just you ran the dungeon 50th times does not mean the others did.

So why is pulling more than the tank forcing the tank to adopt to your playstyle but pulling whatever the tank wants isn’t. The tanks job is identical whether there is 1 mob or 100 mobs. If anything the tank wanting to pull less when the healer and DPS want to pull more is selfish on the tanks part because the tank is the least important member of that equation because their role is identical regardless

[Mesarthim]

So you are forcing others to adopt to your wishful playstyle instead of communicate.
It is and always will be a double edged sword.

Tank can and shall be able to tank with what he is comfy. 1 Pack? 2 Packs? All Packs? Let him decide.

I do give leniency to new players but if you don't grab mobs as the tank and let your party die on purpose you're actively griefing your party. That "is" reportable. It's a team game not a tank ego contest. Try conversing with your party. If the tank is unsure but the healer absolutely gives permission that's another possibility. Back in heavensward when ARR/HW wall pulls were harder my first time tanking a 50 dungeon was haukke manor hard. I pulled the ENTIRE cellar. The party loved it.

So again just speak with your party about it. Everyone is different. So if a tank has a bruised ego, get over it. Everyone is replaceable. You'd be surprised how many dungeons don't need a tank.

[shiftweave]

Tank dashes can only move you to an enemy within range, while some healers and DPS jobs have untargeted or party-targeted dashes, allowing them to easily outrun the tank even if the tank is sprinting and using their dash whenever possible. That's not a skill issue, that's just how the game works.

...Moreover, the type of player who outruns the tank on purpose is also usually the type of player who stops attacking and runs away from a pack when the last few enemies still have about a fifth of their HP left, allowing that player to get even further ahead of anyone who's still contributing (assuming the last pack of the pull wasn't directly in front of a wall).

If the pack is going to die from ranged dps before you reach the wall then the tank should also be running. FWIW when I do this I don't lose damage and I'm still contributing, because I save resources like toxikon/uncoiled fury/katon for the gcd that I'm leaving. Given that these players are trying to speed the dungeon up it's kind of bizarre to assume they stop contributing. That would make it slower.

[ConantSivrha]

Given that these players are trying to speed the dungeon up it's kind of bizarre to assume they stop contributing. That would make it slower.

It is bizarre, but I see people do it. I don't mean ranged players repositioning themselves while continuing to attack, but players (including melee DPS) running away from a still-living pack while visibly not attacking.

Tanks also have far more gap closers than most other classes. The only class that has an non targeted dash with more than one charge is DNC

More charges can sometimes compensate for the inherent advantage of an untargeted dash, but not always.

Unlike enemy-targeted dashes, an untargeted dash can be used as soon as it's ready (allowing the user to start its cooldown immediately), and always makes use of its full range regardless of enemy positioning.

If someone is far enough ahead to pull before you, your gap closer can only move you to the enemies trailing behind them, which allows you to take aggro but not to get in front. If you took a detour for a chest or had any similar delay, someone can get far enough ahead that the enemies they've pulled won't even be in your range until they stop moving.

Regardless my point was simply if you are the tank then run. There is no reason to leisurely stroll along while everyone else is running especially if you then proceed to get mad everyone is ahead of you. And if someone pulls ahead then just take it off them

Sure, but "press the sprint button, you should always be in front of the party" is a different statement with a different meaning than "use sprint and take aggro off of people who pull ahead". The first implies that people can't pull ahead if the tank is playing properly.

I take issue with this "if someone is ahead of you, you must be making an easily-corrected mistake" cliche because it's misinformation which directly reinforces the behaviors that those who repeat it think they're criticizing. If tanks have no good way of keeping themselves at the front, "tanks who fall behind are bad" and "pulling ahead as a DPS/healer is bad" are functionally the same belief from two different perspectives. If someone has been told they need to be in front to be a good tank, but another player can directly prevent them from being in front, they're going to feel like they're being sabotaged every time another player pulls ahead.

I would argue the real counter to "this DPS/healer is sabotaging me by pulling" is actually "it's not your problem".

You should sprint. You should use your gap closer when possible. If someone else has aggro, you should take aggro as soon as you can. But other players are in control of their characters. They chose to run into that pack, and they chose to drag it away from you instead of towards you. It's not your problem until you get there.

[Arohk]

Sure, but "press the sprint button, you should always be in front of the party" is a different statement with a different meaning than "use sprint and take aggro off of people who pull ahead".

If someone has been told they need to be in front to be a good tank, but another player can directly prevent them from being in front, they're going to feel like they're being sabotaged every time another player pulls ahead.

Both statements are true in some way,

when i am tanking a dungeon, there is almost never a case where some DPS is running ahead of me.
This works because:

there is an obvious wall that prevents them from running ahaead, i start running when the last enemy is ABOUT to die, not when they are all dead, which gives me a small lead to the other people, i instantly use sprint when i get out of combat (unless its on cooldown).
I only do 1-2 aoes to hit all the enemies and keep running to the next pack.

BUT IF:
there is still somehow a dps infront and pulls, i just do an AOE anyway and get the aggro of themm, so there is really no issue.

[Sorainthy]

So why is pulling more than the tank forcing the tank to adopt to your playstyle but pulling whatever the tank wants isn’t. The tanks job is identical whether there is 1 mob or 100 mobs. If anything the tank wanting to pull less when the healer and DPS want to pull more is selfish on the tanks part because the tank is the least important member of that equation because their role is identical regardless

You ignored the most important part of my post but it is ok. It triggered you so let me quote myself:

Most random tanks I played with are btw nice and start with one pack. Simple to see if DPS and Healers are awake. As soon as they see me switching to AoE Rotation they start running to another pack - if a heal also came in - if not. Well then 1 Pack at a time.

And if anyone decides to not communicate, not touch bases to see if we can clear quickly but just runs ahead: Take em. You go DPS/Healer.

Also love the comment "If you are behind the party you are doing something wrong". No. Healer and DPS behind Tank. Not that hard. Cause just you ran the dungeon 50th times does not mean the others did.

And now again: Under which circumstances shall anyone beside the one getting hit decide if he is comfy? Is 60sec to talk to each other hard? Mostly in rouletts with randoms?
If I see a sprout on tank/healer/dps I do not simple assume my experience of the game is theirs. Yet I still see in lower tier a lot of "let me run through the whole instance and pull what moves" attempts.
Maybe some of you needs to remembered about the nervous feeling while trying out a new dungeon or a new class/role.


Mesarthim:

I do give leniency to new players but if you don't grab mobs as the tank and let your party die on purpose you're actively griefing your party. That "is" reportable.

And pulling more as the tank feels comfy is harrasing him - so?

It is "play together" not play as fast as you like. Most Dungeons do not need tank - agree. If I look into the forum is it also true that healer at a given point are unneeded. Yet a good demand is here in the forum to change that and reduce tank heal, improve playstyle of healer etc. Reading those answers let me wonder when the communtiy got so bitter.

I stand by my choice: You do not communicate with each other: Nothing grands you any allowance to decide the pace of the group. And it does not matter if you are a healer, a tank or a dps. No communication which takes maybe a minute and still try to do what you like? NPC Helper is for that.