People don’t realize how easy it is to get into raiding in this game

[Gwenkatsu]

I’m honestly quite tired of these forums. first the forums want harder, normal content and then you have people quitting because it’s too hard

It's almost like this forum is visited by different people with different skill levels and therefore different thoughts on the appropriate difficulty level /shockedface/ Whowuddathunk!

[Commander_Justitia]

What I imagin is getting rid of most if not all one hit attacks and playing around withe more enrage timers and multiple parts of the Boss that can be targeted.
With every mechanic that is not properly dodged the Boss buffs himself so the fight get´s harder giving you motivation to do the mechanic next time right, while I would if you dodge mechanics right long enough I would even build in the boss stressing out and starting to fumble giving more windows of oportunetie for attacks.

I haven't played all new raid tiers - but I would like to see a mechanic that buffs damage if you execute it well. Similar to UCoB ending. Fight designs that let you finish the boss faster or slower in such a way would be cool.

Guides are not necessary to do any content. It might take you much longer to understand and clear the fight. Guides allow you to speed run the content, which to me it's the most efficient way of doing that.

There are plenty of mechanics this tier that hit insanely hard, especially in starter gear.

I agree, they are not necessary. But they are like very integrated into the community. It is difficult to find people casually, that are okay with not doing the most efficient way. Like especially ex trial content, is not that hard that you need it to be "the most efficient", but not many have this mindset I guess. Maybe it is different in Japan DC? Does EU/NA have as priority 'fast at any price'?

The funny thing is, I cleared ultimates, deep dungeons solo, savages years ago. But I feel not comfortable joining pf raid or even ex trial groups lol they will almost always require some kind of knowledge or use addons or will just spoiler all mechanics completely how to do them the most efficient way. Or they advertise as p2 prog, when p1 nothing happens, but you havent watched a guide, so you don't know that p1 is faceroll and dont join.
Then perfectly doable pulls are getting wiped because someone died, because their parse will be ruined. Or because a healer is getting uncomfortable raising 3+ people, while the boss fight would allow for it...

WoW has this Dungeon Compendium that lets you see bosses and display their attacks and what they are doing for effects. This is the baseline information I would want to see. The rest I would want to figure out myself. But this would be on SE then to implement it.

[Saraide]

Or they advertise as p2 prog, when p1 nothing happens, but you havent watched a guide, so you don't know that p1 is faceroll and dont join.

Yea dont join groups ahead of your prog point. That should be something you naturally dont do.

[Commander_Justitia]

Yea dont join groups ahead of your prog point. That should be something you naturally dont do.

Yes, but there are often no prog grps for p1 for such a duty, because p1 is progged in 1min anyway. But you obviously don't know that before joining, because you are blind prog. So you are wasting your time finding p1 grp, when it is not necessary. But people are too proud to admit that they basically are still at the start of the fight. So they say p2.
Obviously people are just trying to get more experienced players above their average group experience by the way they word it, when it would be not required.
I think I rarely joined a party that had the progress level it advertised.

[localareanetwork]

this thread is peak comedy, love you guys

[Valence]

Yeah not gonna lie it's the appearance of things like tomestone that makes me relieved I retired this tier. I never had many problems with rotations and performance overall, but I certainly don't need that constant reminder that I'm being watched from all sides at all times, even in statics. Feels like we're under a constant audit those days, more than ever. It's one thing when we've always been dealing with people out of arguments resorting to logs and epeen on social media or the forums, but when it starts creeping into the game itself and within player groups? Nah I'm good.
I can't imagine how much more painful it might be for players with lesser performance and Party Finder.

[Absurdity]

Yeah not gonna lie it's the appearance of things like tomestone that makes me relieved I retired this tier. I never had many problems with rotations and performance overall, but I certainly don't need that constant reminder that I'm being watched from all sides at all times, even in statics. Feels like we're under a constant audit those days, more than ever. It's one thing when we've always been dealing with people out of arguments resorting to logs and epeen on social media or the forums, but when it starts creeping into the game itself and within player groups? Nah I'm good.
I can't imagine how much more painful it might be for players with lesser performance and Party Finder.

It was only a matter of time.
As much as some people like to tell themselves that this community is so much better than WoW's, there is really little difference.

WoW has had Raider.io for years now which serves the same purpose as Tomestone.gg, XIV was going to inevitably get something like it.

[Amarande]

It was only a matter of time.
As much as some people like to tell themselves that this community is so much better than WoW's, there is really little difference.

WoW has had Raider.io for years now which serves the same purpose as Tomestone.gg, XIV was going to inevitably get something like it.

The sad thing is the WoW endgame community seems to have been steadily improving in recent years, while the XIV community seems to be backsliding to become what the WoW community was like (again, unless you are fortunate enough to fall down the right rabbit hole to an off-the-main-path community. And those communities in turn have to be choosy about recruitment lest they become what they tried to get away from, which severely limits their ability to turn back the tide).

Even the way people get rejected in FFXIV vs WoW reflects noticeably poorly on us.

In WoW, it's almost always a bluntly honest matter of "there was somebody better" - which in most cases there was, since any desirable Mythic+ key level in particular will have tens of folks applying in a jiffy to join a 5 player group, while if it's an awkward content level, it'll probably eventually give in and take folks with much less as long as their ilvl isn't obviously absolute complete paper. (WoW's main issue is role shortages, due to the proportion of tanks needed for raids vs mythic+ not harmonizing, and healers being an absolute dog to play during all the solo daily quest type content that you have to do, so that "start your own group" leads to "have two other dps join and then you sit there for an hour until you all give up because supports never applied")

Also WoW data aggregation and use is far more oriented around a "what you did or didn't clear" binary. RIO doesn't record your every little action, just "you cleared this raid/mythic+ with these people" and in the latter case whether/how far you beat the timer. WCLogs has the same (more, even) detail as FFLogs but far as I've seen has had a lot less gravitas outside of more hardcore recruitment settings.

In XIV there's much more of a palpable Mean Girls "you can't sit with us" aura about things, being rejected is practically an active intimation you're terrible (read: anything but "almost perfect" is terrible), also Tomestone will tear apart every little detail of what you did to the point of massively aggravating the anxiety of anyone who was already anxious about raids. If you aren't straddling the line of "not okay" with performance obsession? Not good enough. You might as well forget it in the GCBTW.

And we call ourselves the better ones. I mean at least we don't have trade chats full of edgy dudebro chat, but when it comes to the actual public face of the game? It's a Yikes/10 from me lately.

[IndraSyngiwyb]

I understand where you're coming from, but, unfortunately, the reality around how "easy" or "difficult" it might be is largely irrelevant.

I tried to get into a static with my FC once. Then I started googling what I needed to do to prepare for it. Only to be bombarded with websites telling me, "You need the best crafted gear."

Okay, I go to look for it on the MB. It costs millions of gil to buy. Don't have millions of gil. Don't have crafters leveled up at that point.

Then I also get bombarded with messages about overmelding. I look into what that entails. See stories about raiders sinking millions of gil into overmelding. Still don't have millions of gil.

Then I get told about how I need specific potions and raid food. Look those up on the MB. Costs oodles of gil I still don't have.

At that point, I just said, "Welp, by the time I get everything I need to do this raid, everyone else is going to already have finished it. No point even trying." So I dropped out of the static.

Now, I know that you don't actually NEED overmelded gear. I know you don't NEED to be 100% perfect. But back then, when I first started, all I found on the internet was "guides" basically telling me that's what I had to do. And for anyone else who is just starting with raiding, they have probably encountered the same thing. That may not be the reality, but that is the idea put in their heads.

It's demoralizing as hell, and I honestly don't blame anyone who just looks at it and says, "Not worth it" without looking any further into it.

[CCheshire]

I haven't played all new raid tiers - but I would like to see a mechanic that buffs damage if you execute it well. Similar to UCoB ending. Fight designs that let you finish the boss faster or slower in such a way would be cool.




I agree, they are not necessary. But they are like very integrated into the community. It is difficult to find people casually, that are okay with not doing the most efficient way. Like especially ex trial content, is not that hard that you need it to be "the most efficient", but not many have this mindset I guess. Maybe it is different in Japan DC? Does EU/NA have as priority 'fast at any price'?

The funny thing is, I cleared ultimates, deep dungeons solo, savages years ago. But I feel not comfortable joining pf raid or even ex trial groups lol they will almost always require some kind of knowledge or use addons or will just spoiler all mechanics completely how to do them the most efficient way. Or they advertise as p2 prog, when p1 nothing happens, but you havent watched a guide, so you don't know that p1 is faceroll and dont join.
Then perfectly doable pulls are getting wiped because someone died, because their parse will be ruined. Or because a healer is getting uncomfortable raising 3+ people, while the boss fight would allow for it...

WoW has this Dungeon Compendium that lets you see bosses and display their attacks and what they are doing for effects. This is the baseline information I would want to see. The rest I would want to figure out myself. But this would be on SE then to implement it.

As a new raider, I appreciate the guides since they help me focus during fresh groups instead of usually running in the wrong direction or being confused. I'm still confused, but after watching it enough, I get a sense of where to go for my role, and it's helpful. Also, it lets me see all the mechanics in a simpler way compared to just pure memorization in a text guide too.