People don’t realize how easy it is to get into raiding in this game

[Ekymus]

Outside few reasons that others have laid out, another reason I'm not interested to raid---or rather, PF'ing EX/Savage---is because of the general PF mentality that I've noticed since Endwalker and onward: to treat one another like your pseudo trust NPCs. Idm filling, helping, or doing these fights with group of friends or fixed statics. But because I no longer have that, they're just unworthy of a mental investment.

I gave raiding plenty of chances though at this point. The most recent was the Cruiserweight but it only took 2 attempts to notice the same mentality has not only gone away but is actually way worse. So yeah, no. I'll stick to my RP/friends circles peacefully, thank you.

This is also a uniquely NA and EU problem. The Japan servers use PF as a learning tool. You want to learn an extreme or savage, you use PF to do it. If you're doing a roulete, you better know the fight because they want to get in and get it done.

[Ekymus]

Why am I not allowed to simply dislike high-end raiding?

Who says you're not?

[Ekymus]

I couldn't seriously call them raids after Heavensward.
Alexander was the last time you raided an actual place in the world for valuables. Yes, Dalriada and Castrum Lacus Litore are probably the best recent raids we've gotten, unfortunately they're hidden behind two layers of other junk that prevents you from experiencing them properly nowadays.

For the "normal" raid content however it's basically just been getting teleported into a small arena to do synchronized swimming for 8+ minutes since Stormblood.

But let's be real, this isn't exclusive to the raids.
A lot of the choices in later expansions, be it in regards to lore and explaining away every single mystery or content design, have made the game feel "small" despite us going to space. I haven't felt a sense of adventure in a long time.

That's a you problem, not a game design problem.

[Voidmage]

Making a job complex to play for complexity's sake is bad game design. Finding ways to streamline a job to make it play easier isn't a bad thing.

I main Black Mage. Do I miss the Enochian timer, yeah, a little bit, but not having it doesn't actually make the class all that different and there's still a skill gap between a casual player like me and someone who plays it in Ultimate content. Unless they make it some I'm invulnerable and every spell I cast takes 100% of the boss's health away, I will never be able to play Ultimate content. And if the game ever goes that route, I don't think anyone will be playing it anymore.

Sorry to be rude but that is only your opinion.
I am a BLM main since early HW and have done raiding on it, even in horrible fights for it like Endsinger or P3S.
While I am probably one of the few who hasn’t that much of a problem with the changes it does play completely different.
The only same thing is the buttons you press but the rest is just a shadow of the former job.
Paradox in ice phase has no meaning, in fire phase it is only there for firestarter and the change to thunder made the job lose one huge part of its planning aspect, not to mention sharpcast being gone.
The entire problem with it right now is that its skills are meaningless because they originate from the design standpoint of the timer itself.
It’s just damage in different potencies and flavors now without any strategy involved and lol triplecast for blizzard is not a gap between skill.
There is no real difference between skill floor and skill ceiling anymore and to be blunt I am tired of casual players who never tried to master that job before coming out now to tell everyone how much better it is or that the changes aren’t such a big thing.
If they hadn’t gutted PCT in the same patch I am sure many would have left this job.
It’s good if you and others like the changes but don’t pretend the job hasn’t gotten a huge rework.

A job shouldn’t only be fun in high end content but everywhere and that is another huge problem with the raids nowadays.
Because job complexity is in the gutter it has become the only form of skill expression which means raiders get all the “fun” mechanics while everyone else is left bored to death.
Raids are just scripted boss fights and the jobs are designed to not get in the way of the encounter design and to make them interesting they get their difficulty increased, get mechanics that were cut for normal mode and called savage.

The devs have a "raid team" that goes into the raid like any normal group and try to pass it while looking for bugs and issues. So I'm not sure where your coming from with this comment.

As for them being "the worst in video game history", that's just laughable and means you don't have a lot of experience to call on to make that claim.

But again, if you don't like them, here's the good news, you don't have to do them. I don't ever want to play an Ultimate, so you know what I do? I don't play them. I don't need or want that level of stress in my life. I find the content I like, like normal raids, and I play those.

Piss off with your crappy insult.
I have no experience is rich coming from a guy who says himself that he only plays BLM casual.
Talk to me again when you are half my age.

Please show me the raid team and a video of them doing a fight like normal players.
The devs are designers first and foremost and while they can raid they probably don’t sit there for days or weeks doing savage and ultimate fights like normal players but your are free to believe that.
Why do you think games normaly have play testers?

For your last part be sure I don’t do them anymore.
OP asked a question and I answered it.

But that’s all from me.
I have given up discussing with people like you ages ago.


Also learn to not double post before talking about experience.

[SlickPaws]

Because job complexity is in the gutter it has become the only form of skill expression which means raiders get all the “fun” mechanics while everyone else is left bored to death.

The loss of SAM's Kaiten in favour of an auto-criting Midare Setsugekka to "smooth out crit variance in high-end content" still hurts me like a phantom limb.
At least, that was one of the reasons I'd read on here as to why it was removed. I also heard it was to reduce button bloat, despite there being several better options. Either way it resulted in Samurai feeling a bit more flat for lack of a better term. That's the sort of simplification and streamlining that reduces skill expression and some of those fun animations.
I'm also gutted that they removed VPR's Noxious Gnash that it had at launch, akin to RPR's Shadow of Death. It wasn't hard to manage and the job plays more or less the same after it was taken away, but keeping that buff up and cycling your SKS and Damage buffs was decent enough skill expression and at least something to keep an eye on. Again it's left feeling a little flat, a little more deflated and while I'm sure there's probably some good reason for it at the highest levels of play, it sucks that everyone else has to lose out on interesting things for the sake of it.

I was talking to my guildie yesterday about gap closers as well just now and the homogenising of those and we came to the conclusion that there's only 4 jobs that even still have gap closers that do damage - WAR, PLD, SAM and RDM. Everything else just has a variant of jump to target/teleport forward and it just feels a bit crap to do an ability that should feel like a charge attack and see yourself glide in harmlessly. I always like DRG and how it was based around lots of weaves and acrobatics with your jumps and dives, and it just feels like there's a lot less of that to do now which was most of the fun of DRG for me. I'm happy that Dragon Sight got the axe, but the gap closers caught a stray there too and it sucks for skill expression.

/grumpyrant
/damnkidsgetoffmylawn

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

The problem isn't really helped by everything that's been said as well. It stands to reason that if the mentality is "Everyone has their own job to stick to and everyone's expected to know it" then you could get away with doing it solo with NPCs and get more or less the same experience as doing it with a [Duty Complete] PF group who just aren't saying much in chat. Provided the tanks are mitigating, the healers are taking care of raidwide damage and the DPS aren't taking unnecessary damage, and everyone's following the guide to the letter, there's really no incentive or reason to interact. The way raids are designed effectively enforces this mentality.

I'd say this extends even to progging. I really do not mesh with "Watch a vid beforehand/while progging"-method. I have to actually DO the stuff to learn, and I have to do it continuously with only tiny breaks in-between should party mate even need it. The repetitive 'pauses' just because somebody needs to review their own material really force a figurative brake on my own learning momentum, and thus it's easy for me to just forget whatever I've learned up to that point.

Worse? There's very little communication, like you've said. "Is there anything I can do to help with X mechanic?" is often met with silence until the proverbial 'ok' via next abrupt countdown timer. Also don't even get me started on the ones who don't even know what it means to prog a fight together..... lol. It wasn't as bad during ShB as far as I can remember... what led to the shift in paradigm come EW, Idk. I'm so over that.

[VeyaAkemi]

I'm happy that Dragon Sight got the axe

I actually miss Dragon Sight myself, and I hate that it got the axe instead of being properly reworked, especially because the whole eye thing ties very strongly into FFXIV dragon lore and the importance of eyes to them, as well as the role of the Azure Dragoon, a title that the WoL received at one point even if it is now defunct, they should've made it work like Closed Position where you simply pick the target for your buff ahead of time, they could gain a "Closed Left Eye" buff that switches into a "Open Left Eye" when the buff is active, and returns to "closed" state after.

[SlickPaws]

I'd say this extends even to progging. I really do not mesh with "Watch a vid beforehand/while progging"-method. I have to actually DO the stuff to learn, and I have to do it continuously with only tiny breaks in-between should party mate even need it.

I'm the same. I can't just watch a guide and then do it right off the bat, I need to actually do the mechanics and get used to it for myself. I'll still skim the guides to see what's coming but sitting around in a party waiting to pull for 5 minutes while everyone listens to someone over-explain a mechanic on YouTube is tedious. Good time for a smoke break though. xD

I actually miss Dragon Sight myself, and I hate that it got the axe instead of being properly reworked, especially because the whole eye thing ties very strongly into FFXIV dragon lore and the importance of eyes to them, as well as the role of the Azure Dragoon, a title that the WoL received at one point even if it is now defunct, they should've made it work like Closed Position where you simply pick the target for your buff ahead of time, they could gain a "Closed Left Eye" buff that switches into a "Open Left Eye" when the buff is active, and returns to "closed" state after.

I said to anyone who would listen when the DRG rework was announced that Dragon Sight should become the melee version of Closed Position/Dance Partner. DRG has the built-in dmg buff from Disembowel/Power Surge that could be shared, it's got your Lance Charge that could double up as the Standard Finish/Technical Finish equivalent, maybe do something with Life Surge charges being used to give short 3s dmg buffs to your partner. And then when the dragon eyes are open and you're popping your big attacks that I'm not even going to attempt to spell, your partner gets some buff as well. The only thing I hated about Dragon Sight was the fact it had to be targeted and I dealt with that by using a macro and hoping for the best most of the time and that's the part I'm glad to see the back of... But for things on my DRG wishlist, Dragon Sight becoming Dance Partner was pretty much #1. (Ironic that I'd complain about homogenisation and then dream of DRG getting a DNC ability, but I'm aware of it and that makes it alright.)

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I'm the same. I can't just watch a guide and then do it right off the bat, I need to actually do the mechanics and get used to it for myself. I'll still skim the guides to see what's coming but sitting around in a party waiting to pull for 5 minutes while everyone listens to someone over-explain a mechanic on YouTube is tedious. Good time for a smoke break though. xD[...]

That's the thing though: it didn't even happen in party chat (or happen at all, god forbid). It could be anywhere, but the point is, you don't feel like you're part of the struggle. You're just yet another trust NPC, a pseudo one that is.

[Onshinn]

It's not about how hard or easy to get into raiding... It's the time to dedicated your life into it. I used to spend and entire week for about 6-10 hours just on learning, preparing, crafting, and or waiting on the group on ONE single Extreme Trial OR Savage. If Planned to finish all of this High End Raids... My IRL life would be broke lol. I only have ONE life to choose; that's the reality.