Tanks Help me out

[PercibelTheren]

A DRK who knows how to properly rotate mits will barely take any damage. GNB has basically the same self healing as a Paladin. Unless your gear is way below par, healing is very rarely needed, usually only when the DPS is low and things take forever to die.

[Valence]

Problem is you go from not healing to the tank to healing them like once every minute because the mitigation, taking no damage from auto's is a big part into why tanks feel so invincible.

Sustain is only one part of the problem.

Depends of the fight. MIL at release for P5S and P8S notably, every auto ate like 20% of the tank HP bar. Force them to spread their mits more that way, and again, make healers take care of them, back then it was... still an afterthought because tanks could heal themselves anyway.
But more than anything, we've lost random crits and mini busters, so of course this is getting stale and plannable through spreadsheets.

[AzizaToinette]

It depends on your experience with the job, the dmg heaviness from mobs in the duty and your gear.
I have been whm main over 5 years now and I sometimes get tanks..gnb inclusive, who need little to 0 healing in a wall to wall pull. If I see a tank who mit well, don't drop hp too fast, and mobs who will die before the tank can reach 0hp I won't heal if I don't have asize or a lily I have to uncap.

I do not believe in healing someone who does a fine job healing themselves so for me... if my tank can handle themselves it's a huge plus.

I also believe it raise a players class experience and technical flair that they get a chance to relly on their own toolkit more than on mine, so thumbs up for wanting to experiment with being self sufficient in pulls.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

It depends on your experience with the job, the dmg heaviness from mobs in the duty and your gear.
I have been whm main over 5 years now and I sometimes get tanks..gnb inclusive, who need little to 0 healing in a wall to wall pull. If I see a tank who mit well, don't drop hp too fast, and mobs who will die before the tank can reach 0hp I won't heal if I don't have asize or a lily I have to uncap.

I do not believe in healing someone who does a fine job healing themselves so for me... if my tank can handle themselves it's a huge plus.

I also believe it raise a players class experience and technical flair that they get a chance to relly on their own toolkit more than on mine, so thumbs up for wanting to experiment with being self sufficient in pulls.

I'm of a similar mind here, which is why I usually would prefer if Healer jobs had more interesting combat flair (i.e. more interesting damage loops/flowcharts than 21111111111[...] or 33333333 for AOE). I mean either that or MMORPG content goes back to actually making trinity stuff more relevant again by turning damage up.

It's just that right now, incoming damage is too low for what insane sustain and mitigation tools we have + healer (and even tank) damage gameplay is boring. It's dreadful.

[Reginald_Cain]

I haven't had much trouble keeping myself alive during my dailies, but I have noticed there are moments where DRK's lack of party utility causes other players to die in cases where the other 3 tanks could've saved them.
regardless of whether or not this "matters in casual content", it feels bad to know that DRK's kit can't help its teammates as well as the other tanks can

Dark knight is alright at high levels. You can preemptively mitigate with tbn and oblation and the finally moved dark missionary to level 70 which helped a lot. dark knight cant heal or regen the party but they pump out pretty solid damage and mitigate pretty good. At low levels you really feel the lack of a short cd mit like heart of stone, raw intuition or sheltron. it's weird that they haven't moved down tbn to the 50's some where

[Reginald_Cain]

It depends on your experience with the job, the dmg heaviness from mobs in the duty and your gear.
I have been whm main over 5 years now and I sometimes get tanks..gnb inclusive, who need little to 0 healing in a wall to wall pull. If I see a tank who mit well, don't drop hp too fast, and mobs who will die before the tank can reach 0hp I won't heal if I don't have asize or a lily I have to uncap.

I do not believe in healing someone who does a fine job healing themselves so for me... if my tank can handle themselves it's a huge plus.

I also believe it raise a players class experience and technical flair that they get a chance to relly on their own toolkit more than on mine, so thumbs up for wanting to experiment with being self sufficient in pulls.

Finally somebody who sees it the way I do! I think the current healing in dungeons is fine because the level of competence varies greatly between parties and i like taking stress away from my healer so they can use their dps tools (at least the tools they had before shadowbringers took 90% of them away T_T)

[Rithy255]

Depends of the fight. MIL at release for P5S and P8S notably, every auto ate like 20% of the tank HP bar. Force them to spread their mits more that way, and again, make healers take care of them, back then it was... still an afterthought because tanks could heal themselves anyway.
But more than anything, we've lost random crits and mini busters, so of course this is getting stale and plannable through spreadsheets.

I did mention that sustain is only part of the problem, because i would still most certainly nerf it, warrior being a prime example but other tanks like paladin/gnb could lose some

But tackling the mitigation is very important, it's important to not just go "oh remove all sustain" as it can play into a jobs identity, y'know as a "Paladin" I want at least some healing related cooldowns (because SE will never make a melee based healer), as a Warrior I think cooldowns like equilibrium are nice just the regen and all the other stuff added, where now its not just a sustain cooldown, your entire kit has sustain which is a problem

I'd see it as more scaling back on the base kits rather then just tackling sustain which i think is the most healthy way of putting tanks back in line without taking away stuff directly, maybe warrior would need to be a exception because the state of bloodwhetting in AOE is not ok, every cooldown even your 40% having a heal attached is really poorly designed.

[Espon]

Dark knight is alright at high levels. You can preemptively mitigate with tbn and oblation and the finally moved dark missionary to level 70 which helped a lot. dark knight cant heal or regen the party but they pump out pretty solid damage and mitigate pretty good. At low levels you really feel the lack of a short cd mit like heart of stone, raw intuition or sheltron. it's weird that they haven't moved down tbn to the 50's some where

Honestly Obliation should be a self-use skill that is learned at a low level, then have a level 82 trait that allows you to cast it on others.

I'd see it as more scaling back on the base kits rather then just tackling sustain which i think is the most healthy way of putting tanks back in line without taking away stuff directly, maybe warrior would need to be a exception because the state of bloodwhetting in AOE is not ok, every cooldown even your 40% having a heal attached is really poorly designed.

I hate how they just keep giving warrior more healing. It's far more than what's required for dungeons, but in difficult content it still isn't as good as what the other tanks can do. I rather have the big shield or higher max HP that paladin and gunbreaker get on their 40% mitigation abilities than a slow heal over time as you typically save them for tankbusters.

[Valence]

I did mention that sustain is only part of the problem, because i would still most certainly nerf it, warrior being a prime example but other tanks like paladin/gnb could lose some

But tackling the mitigation is very important, it's important to not just go "oh remove all sustain" as it can play into a jobs identity, y'know as a "Paladin" I want at least some healing related cooldowns (because SE will never make a melee based healer), as a Warrior I think cooldowns like equilibrium are nice just the regen and all the other stuff added, where now its not just a sustain cooldown, your entire kit has sustain which is a problem

I'd see it as more scaling back on the base kits rather then just tackling sustain which i think is the most healthy way of putting tanks back in line without taking away stuff directly, maybe warrior would need to be a exception because the state of bloodwhetting in AOE is not ok, every cooldown even your 40% having a heal attached is really poorly designed.

I do agree, and I actually was a big fan of the clear design difference there was between PLD and WAR back in ARR/HW. WAR had no inherent mitigation, it was all about healing buffs and self healing to make up for it. It was a totally different experience than tanking as a PLD. But guess what current WAR does? It does MIT like any other tank, and SELF HEALS like there is no tomorrow (and no skill behind it either, which is another can of worms).

If we want to have mitigators, shields/barrier, self healing, leech heals, or anything else of flavor, then tanks should pick one, not all of them.

[Rithy255]

I do agree, and I actually was a big fan of the clear design difference there was between PLD and WAR back in ARR/HW. WAR had no inherent mitigation, it was all about healing buffs and self healing to make up for it. It was a totally different experience than tanking as a PLD. But guess what current WAR does? It does MIT like any other tank, and SELF HEALS like there is no tomorrow (and no skill behind it either, which is another can of worms).

If we want to have mitigators, shields/barrier, self healing, leech heals, or anything else of flavor, then tanks should pick one, not all of them.

I feel like Warrior should be reworked to have a higherbase Hp, but has to choose between Mitigation or sustain (similar to how back in shb you had to choose between nascent/raw int) I think you obviously need some base mitigation value for current designs to rework to survive busters.

I don't personally want Paladin to only be about Mitigation as I love its current identity as this white holy magic tank, I do think honestly we need to tone down some of its mitigation value in some areas, though i wouldn't mind losing the selfish healing from the magic combo as life steal doesn't really feel like a paladin, I think Paladin should lean on that support, utility with decent mitigations but keep its incredibly long invul as it's a actual big downside paladin has to other tanks

Dark Knight, I would love to be barrier and life leach dependent with less actual percent mitigation, While gunbreaker sort of fits the jack of all trades so just toning down its actual current skills.


I mean theirs room for lots of different designs with tanks but all 4 are practically the same currently.