Tanks Help me out

[Reginald_Cain]

Can gunbreaker and dark knight wall to wall pull with no healer? There seems to be a rhetoric on the forums that all tanks are immortal now and healers are useless.

[AmiableApkallu]

I'm fairly certain I've done runs of the Lv.100 dungeons where a GNB or DRK did a wall-to-wall pull, the only healing came from Eos's Embrace, and Excogitation never popped.

So, not quite no healing, but if the tank's HP never dropped below 50% the entire pull, how much danger were they in, really?

[Rithy255]

Gunbreaker has pretty much the same single target sustain as a paladin, with very similar mits, both are ver capable of wall to walling with no healer because they have high mitigation value with good self healing

DRK Can still wall to wall they have a full heal on 60's, aslong as you use your cooldowns properly it should be easy, honestly pulls on drk are almost as easy as warrior if you know what your doing.

Though it does depend on damage output a lot of the time, if dps aren't doing much you run out of resources

[Azurarok]

Heart of Corundum and Aurora's heal output is pretty dang good. GNB might have better survivability than PLD if we don't count Clemency honestly. I've solo'd some dungeon bosses with it in the past too (with consent! I asked if I should try to keep going or wipe after everyone else died like 15% into the fight and it ended up so painfully long).

DRK's harder but some good usage of TBN, Abyssal Drain, Shadowed Vigil and Living Dead can manage it. The difference in healing needed for a DRK that knows its kit and one that doesn't is very, very noticeable.

[Rithy255]

Heart of Corundum and Aurora's heal output is pretty dang good. GNB might have better survivability than PLD if we don't count Clemency honestly. I've solo'd some dungeon bosses with it in the past too (with consent! I asked if I should try to keep going or wipe after everyone else died like 15% into the fight and it ended up so painfully long).

DRK's harder but some good usage of TBN, Abyssal Drain, Shadowed Vigil and Living Dead can manage it. The difference in healing needed for a DRK that knows its kit and one that doesn't is very, very noticeable.

I'd disagree that drks harder to wall to wall, Abyssal drain is very underated, that along with how much sheer mitigation you get now with the darkmind/missonary changes plus TBN being great with all your mits makes dark very good in dungeon AOE. Drk's slightly behind on single target sustain but not by a lot, makes up with its mitigation value by far.

[Voryn]

I'm fairly certain I've done runs of the Lv.100 dungeons where a GNB or DRK did a wall-to-wall pull, the only healing came from Eos's Embrace, and Excogitation never popped.

So, not quite no healing, but if the tank's HP never dropped below 50% the entire pull, how much danger were they in, really?

I get the same thing as well but from the other side. As DRK in Dawntrail dungeons I generally don’t see Shadowed Vigil’s new excog effect go off early, and only very rarely use Abyssal Drain for healing, because my health doesn’t get low. And this would happen [/i]before[/i] the 7.1 changes to Dark Mind, Dark Missionary, and Abyssal Drain. But I say all this as someone who isn’t great at keeping track of what the healer is using because I’m focusing on my own mitigation.

[Reginald_Cain]

Hmm. I can see the problem better when dps perform well. Still not convinced majority of healers in df could keep up if tanks got their healing gutted. Tanks would need something in return for losing it

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Hmm. I can see the problem better when dps perform well. Still not convinced majority of healers in df could keep up if tanks got their healing gutted. Tanks would need something in return for losing it

They would not. Believe it or not, but the heal potency we have is extremely overkill for dungeons. Dark Knight in fact had even less sustain than now and could still be played well in dungeons.

Tanks can be designed to make reducing damage their focal point over HP recovery. As for the sustain of the current tanks, it could be comfortably reduced with minimal issues.

WAR's Bloodwhetting heals could be made to trigger only once per weapon skill (like PLD spells) and it would still be 1600 + 400 effective heal potency every 25s, which is a hilarious lot on top of their 2 x 10% mitigation. GNB Aurora could be shortened for less total potency and it would still be good, same with Heart of Corundum heals. PLD spell healing could be cut by like 25% (400 -> 300) quite comfortably and Holy Sheltron could even have the regen halved with minimal issues.

Tanks have a bucketload of mitigation to begin with and then have even more recovery. Either they could make incoming tank damage actually be much higher to warrant all this healing (and get lazy players to use it), or they could cut over half of it with minimal repercussions.

[Espon]

Hmm. I can see the problem better when dps perform well. Still not convinced majority of healers in df could keep up if tanks got their healing gutted. Tanks would need something in return for losing it

Right now it could just be healers being lax because they don't really have to worry about healing the tank. If tank healing got gutted, healers would just have to learn to use their GCD heals and things would continue on as normal, just being a bit slower to do healers having less chances to AoE.

If a healer can no longer perform their basic duty of healing because the tank no longer has crazy sustain, then they probably shouldn't be playing a "healer" anymore.

Honestly I think this game could really benefit from ramping up the amount of damage enemies dish out, while transferring some tank healing to short CD mitigations that need to be properly managed, because right now the only time tanks die is if they fail a mechanic and get 1-shot, or don't pop a CD during the occasional tankbuster. It would also make healing more enjoyable as they'll be forced to use their entire kit instead of just spamming two DPS buttons most of the time.

[AmiableApkallu]

Hmm. I can see the problem better when dps perform well. Still not convinced majority of healers in df could keep up if tanks got their healing gutted. Tanks would need something in return for losing it

If I recall correctly, PLD gets all of their non-Clemency self-healing (self-HP restoration) after Lv.80, i.e., starting in Endwalker. I'm pretty sure healers have been keeping up with them just fine in all those Shadowbringers, Stormblood, etc. dungeons.