We need to do something about Tanks and Outgoing Damage from Bosses

[CaptainLagbeard]

Bring back enrages to normal content.

[Titania40]

Bring back enrages to normal content.

You mean like the 2nd boss in the second Shadowbringers MSQ dungeon? Which WILL wipe the party instantly if there aren't enough players able to do the mechanic? And it only takes being down one player (or one person to screw up) for the mechanic to cause a wipe.

[Kaurhz]

You mean like the 2nd boss in the second Shadowbringers MSQ dungeon? Which WILL wipe the party instantly if there aren't enough players able to do the mechanic? And it only takes being down one player (or one person to screw up) for the mechanic to cause a wipe.

I mean nobody is asking for pinpoint precision with everyone needing to be alive to meet it, but something needs to be done to put a stopper on tanks playing god-mode in normal content. If 2 people can slowly whittle down a boss across 30 minutes then there is an issue... Whether that is excessive self-sustain or or bosses just dealing less damage than what a tank can sustain themselves on.

Also, assuming you're referring to that walk in the second dungeon, then it's incredibly lenient, and I mean incredibly.

[Titania40]

I mean nobody is asking for pinpoint precision with everyone needing to be alive to meet it, but something needs to be done to put a stopper on tanks playing god-mode in normal content. If 2 people can slowly whittle down a boss across 30 minutes then there is an issue... Whether that is excessive self-sustain or or bosses just dealing less damage than what a tank can sustain themselves on.

Also, assuming you're referring to that walk in the second dungeon, then it's incredibly lenient, and I mean incredibly.

The 2nd dungeon, with the butterflies everywhere? Second boss has a mechanic which if you don't have all 4 people doing the mechanic, the party WILL fail if the boss gets 4 stacks total. As I learned when a duty support NPC decided to not do that mechanic on the 2nd go round (they kept running from location to location instead of picking one). Another Duty Support run failed cause I was stuck in a cage when the mechanic spawned the third time, and didn't quite have enough time to break the cage and run to where I needed to be. Instant fail.

[HyperiusUltima]

The 2nd dungeon, with the butterflies everywhere? Second boss has a mechanic which if you don't have all 4 people doing the mechanic, the party WILL fail if the boss gets 4 stacks total. As I learned when a duty support NPC decided to not do that mechanic on the 2nd go round (they kept running from location to location instead of picking one). Another Duty Support run failed cause I was stuck in a cage when the mechanic spawned the third time, and didn't quite have enough time to break the cage and run to where I needed to be. Instant fail.

If we're talking about the 2nd Boss in Dohn Mheg, that's not necessarily an issue with Stack Markers. If anything it at least poses something for the player to learn about blocking the tethers, and with the additions to the Hall of the Novice it helps out a lot completing the whole thing.

[Titania40]

If we're talking about the 2nd Boss in Dohn Mheg, that's not necessarily an issue with Stack Markers. If anything it at least poses something for the player to learn about blocking the tethers, and with the additions to the Hall of the Novice it helps out a lot completing the whole thing.

Well, yeah. I was trying to avoid mentioning the dungeon's name, because people get really angry about "spoilers" if you mention the actual names of dungeons. And yeah, the new Hall of Novice boss mechanics tutorial did help with knowing what you're expected to do. Assuming people actually ran the tutorial, that is. Getting that dungeon in a leveling roulette was nice. Getting it with 3 first timers who'd never seen that particular mechanic before, and refused to do the Hall of the Novice tutorials because "tutorials are for losers" (according to one of them) meant we struggled with that particular boss till I managed to convince them of what to do. Dohn Mheg's last boss is IMO annoying as hell due to it turning into a platforming challenge. The group really struggled with that one.

I can't imagine how those three got through the second boss of Stormblood's level 65 dungeon.

[HyperiusUltima]

I mean nobody is asking for pinpoint precision with everyone needing to be alive to meet it, but something needs to be done to put a stopper on tanks playing god-mode in normal content. If 2 people can slowly whittle down a boss across 30 minutes then there is an issue... Whether that is excessive self-sustain or or bosses just dealing less damage than what a tank can sustain themselves on.

Oddly enough M6 doesn't have this issue due to the constant Party Stack - and even if you try to invuln, even WAR can't have their CD up in time for the next one on top of Raid-wides and Autos. If anything I don't knock design including more party stacks, but then it becomes a body check at that point. Generally you want to not put too many body checks in a fight otherwise we wind up with P10S problems in EW.

As someone said above:

Bring back enrages to normal content.

We need this in normal raids badly. Enrage should be lenient enough to allow people to clear if they're 8-man, but no so bad as you need to push hard for damage and have a high-end rotation. They'll have to meet the average player's skill level for this. While someone can argue "but enrage causes casuals to wipe a lot and they can't do the content!", that's never been an issue when it was thrown into an Alliance Raid last expansion. Throw it into normal raids please and you'll probably manage to get some good things from even the normal crowd.

[Davixxa]

Oddly enough M6 doesn't have this issue due to the constant Party Stack - and even if you try to invuln, even WAR can't have their CD up in time for the next one on top of Raid-wides and Autos. If anything I don't knock design including more party stacks, but then it becomes a body check at that point. Generally you want to not put too many body checks in a fight otherwise we wind up with P10S problems in EW.

As someone said above:



We need this in normal raids badly. Enrage should be lenient enough to allow people to clear if they're 8-man, but no so bad as you need to push hard for damage and have a high-end rotation. They'll have to meet the average player's skill level for this. While someone can argue "but enrage causes casuals to wipe a lot and they can't do the content!", that's never been an issue when it was thrown into an Alliance Raid last expansion. Throw it into normal raids please and you'll probably manage to get some good things from even the normal crowd.

Wait. Myths of the Realm had an enrage? lmao

[Araxes]

Bring back enrages to normal content.

No. Putting timers on content is the laziest way of making content "hard" and its THE reason we have the "everybody is a DPS" meme.

I am a Tank main and Yes, bosses need to hit harder and more AOE party stacks can prevent tanks from sustaining 30% of the fight by themselves. Harder hitting Tank busters can do that too. There was a time when a Tank buster would just Delete you if you didnt use 2 or more Defensives.
Not just bosses though, normal Mobs in dungeons too! This would also prevent DPS from pulling if they are just squatted instantly as it should be.

[CaptainLagbeard]

No. Putting timers on content is the laziest way of making content "hard" and its THE reason we have the "everybody is a DPS" meme.

Putting an enrage timer on the normal difficulty content isn't really about making it hard, it's more that it'd set a baseline skill requirement of "Do not stand in fire, fire is bad for you."... Also making it so that you need at least the majority of the party in order to finish.