#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[AmiableApkallu]

There are times when I feel like SGE is what you get when what you wanted is a WHM that hasn't been constrained by being the purest of "pure" healers, but instead you need to shoehorn the job into being a "barrier" healer.

EDIT: In terms of gameplay, I mean. The aesthetics are obviously worlds apart.

[SongOfTheWind]

There are times when I feel like SGE is what you get when what you wanted is a WHM that hasn't been constrained by being the purest of "pure" healers, but instead you need to shoehorn the job into being a "barrier" healer.

EDIT: In terms of gameplay, I mean. The aesthetics are obviously worlds apart.

I see so many WHM mains loving sge, that it must be true.

[Kacho_Nacho]

There are times when I feel like SGE is what you get when what you wanted is a WHM that hasn't been constrained by being the purest of "pure" healers, but instead you need to shoehorn the job into being a "barrier" healer.

EDIT: In terms of gameplay, I mean. The aesthetics are obviously worlds apart.

That's an interesting viewpoint.

[AmiableApkallu]

That's an interesting viewpoint.

Let me elaborate: In the context of FFXIV's current encounter design...

No one has ever accused WHM of being the bestest of "pure" healers, nor has anyone accused of SGE of being the bestest "barrier" healer. On the other hand, people have accused WHM of lacking in barriers, and SGE of putting out too much regens/HP.

Take SGE, delete Kardia, rename (Pan)Haima as Regenerative Stoneskin/Protect (or whatever, I'm bad at names), smoosh what's left into current WHM, and... I think that might make for a reasonable jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none healer.

And that, I think, is perfectly fitting for a healer that you can pick up at Lv.1 and take through the MSQ and Be Viable in Content(tm), while being in keeping with previous Final Fantasy games where the only healer was... a white mage (or close derivative).

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[…]Even worse is things like SGE, where the complaints aren't 'I miss old version', but moreso 'there didn't get to be an old version to miss, because SE shortcutted straight to making it a copy of the bad version of SCH we're now complaining about'

Call me petty if you will, but I think SGE creation is their way to try to prove that SCH did not need Energy Drain at all in their kits but, given that SGE is a carbon copy, they’ve only succeeded to recreate the same issue, hilariously so.

[Supersnow845]

SGE is 100% a regen healer that was given shield GCD’s

If eukrasia added a regen to prognosis rather than a shield and they never added the shield to holos because it wouldn’t be competing with SCH then SGE would have the same mitigation profile as AST just trading being able to generate GCD shields every 2 minutes for a 30 second mitigation rather than 1 minute

SGE does nothing interesting with its shields and has no equalities to spreadlo tech, its only being held up by them deciding eukrasia would add shields

[Rithy255]

I mean the whole idea that SGE (or even sch) is more lacking in pure heals (or even "regens") is pretty much a joke.

Shield healers are honestly just outright better then anything pure healers have to offer, the only reason why Astro gets a pass in comparison is because they also have so many mitigation and strong resource tools.

Which leaves pretty much white mage being this weird highly played healer that basically offers next to nothing in a group, but because healers aren't even really that important in the first place it's not like bringing a white mage over a astro (or second shield healer) matters that much.

They need to move away from shield/pure healer, it's clearly not even working properly, Let healers have different ways to actually be interesting and diverse... like different procs, dots, rotations, different cast times... maybe bringing stuff back like noct sect on astro... or wild idea fun interactive cards on aswell back to the job.

Make sage and scholar different jobs, lean into sages "dps healer" fantasy way more please... make scholar a big DOT healer with different fairies that offer utility in different situations.

[UNDEAD10000]

I mean the whole idea that SGE (or even sch) is more lacking in pure heals (or even "regens") is pretty much a joke.

Shield healers are honestly just outright better then anything pure healers have to offer, the only reason why Astro gets a pass in comparison is because they also have so many mitigation and strong resource tools.

Which leaves pretty much white mage being this weird highly played healer that basically offers next to nothing in a group, but because healers aren't even really that important in the first place it's not like bringing a white mage over a astro (or second shield healer) matters that much.

They need to move away from shield/pure healer, it's clearly not even working properly, Let healers have different ways to actually be interesting and diverse... like different procs, dots, rotations, different cast times... maybe bringing stuff back like noct sect on astro... or wild idea fun interactive cards on aswell back to the job.

Make sage and scholar different jobs, lean into sages "dps healer" fantasy way more please... make scholar a big DOT healer with different fairies that offer utility in different situations.

The reason why shield healer is better then pure healers is due to too low incoming damage where shield healer simply can fully mitigate boss party wide AoE attacks and even tank busters.

White mage was the best healer in the game back in 2.0, 3.0 and even in early 4.0 but things started to change change since 5.0 to the point that only best side about white mage is having AoE attack with stun and have healing skill to fully heal party member, other that that white mage suffers having too many powerful healing skills while not having any useful utility skills.

Pure and shield healer system did work back in 2.0 and 3.0 where pure healer was most desired healer in any party while shield healer was great as support healer to mitigate some damage.

While i'm not fully sure but i thing the whole idea of Sage was being a DPS healer with ability to be a pure snd shield hybrid healer.

Originaly scholar pretty much was a DoT shield healer when it did have many same DoT skills when summoner had back in 2.0 and 3.0.
Scholar did have 2 fairies with different set of skills, Eos was healer type while Selene was support type but they made both Eos and Selene have same skills in 5.0 and Selene got removed in 6.4 when they made Selene as a glamour for Eos.

Instead making new healer types, FFXIV devs really needs to start to fix the healer problem by inceasing incoming damage in every content, get rid of healing skill bloat and add few more DPS skills to make healers DPS rotation more interesting then spamming single DPS skill 99% of time.

[Supersnow845]

It’s hard to compare to 2.0 because in 2.0 the split was definitely not shield vs regen it was single target healer vs AOE

WHM was the AOE healer and SCH was the single target healer. AST changed it a bit but definitely leant towards being a replacement for WHM because it was a better AOE healer than single target healer and SCH still dominated in that field

Though ever since 3.0 when we had a choice healers were almost always split based on damage not healing capabilities which WHM has always been famously terrible at

[ForsakenRoe]

I mean the whole idea that SGE (or even sch) is more lacking in pure heals (or even "regens") is pretty much a joke.

Shield healers are honestly just outright better then anything pure healers have to offer, the only reason why Astro gets a pass in comparison is because they also have so many mitigation and strong resource tools.

Which leaves pretty much white mage being this weird highly played healer that basically offers next to nothing in a group, but because healers aren't even really that important in the first place it's not like bringing a white mage over a astro (or second shield healer) matters that much.

They need to move away from shield/pure healer, it's clearly not even working properly, Let healers have different ways to actually be interesting and diverse... like different procs, dots, rotations, different cast times... maybe bringing stuff back like noct sect on astro... or wild idea fun interactive cards on aswell back to the job.

Make sage and scholar different jobs, lean into sages "dps healer" fantasy way more please... make scholar a big DOT healer with different fairies that offer utility in different situations.

Everything mentioned here, is exactly what I've been saying for months. Wish I knew Japanese so I could post it over on those furms too, maybe it'd have a chance of getting seen by SE over there. Though, I imagine there'd be a lot more 'why are you trying to do the devs job, shut up' kind of responses

For SGE in particular, a very simple idea I had was Second Opinion. In short, when a Eukrasian Diagnosis/Eukrasian Prognosis shield breaks, it'd leave behind a buff called Second Opinion, for 6s. This buff could then be consumed by using Pepsis (now with a much shorter CD, but a small MP cost to compensate) to heal the party. A bit like using Continuation on GNB after certain attacks, but we're 'Continuation-ing' the enemy's attack rather than our own. Or, if you've ever played something like Viewtiful Joe, Wonderful 101, etc. It's like the Ukemi technique, where pressing 'Jump' the exact frame you hit the floor recovers the HP you just lost (but this has a much more forgiving timing window). This gameplay is actually possible currently, because the netcode is so jank/slow, you can get the benefit of the shield, and heal as if you're consuming it, with precise timing. This would just make it an actual gameplay mechanic.

But, if such a system were implemented, we could go further with it to differentiate SCH and SGE. For example, at level 78, both get their 10% mit/30s CD action, Soil and Kerachole, upgraded to have a 100p regen for the duration. So, what if instead, Kerachole applied a special version of Second Opinion, that can be consumed via Pepsis to heal for... however much (I have it listed as 400p to make it equal to 'Eukrasian Diagnosis was consumed' values).

Then, we could also tie the generation of Addersting to 'When you heal via Pepsis', rather than 'when the barrier breaks', allowing players to generate Toxikons without having to lose damage setting up a barrier with E.Diagnosis/E.Prognosis, as they'd now be able to trigger a heal whenever they use Kerachole (meaning 1 Sting per 30s), provided they have the MP spare to do so. It also helps solidify SCH as being 'the proactive barrier healer', with more of their kit being based on 'prepare for what comes next', and SGE being more of a 'reactive barrier healer', where some stuff needs to be set up in advance (Kera, barriers, Holos), but it has more tools than SCH for dealing with the after effects of the damage (Pepsis, Pneuma, Panhaima's expiration effect)

I think that this should be the direction for changes to the Healer Jobs: Changes that are small in terms of dev time to implement, but have far reaching implications on the gameplay, thereby 'minmaxing' how much time is required to implement vs how much return on that time spend we reap. Unfortunately, such an approach means that AST is likely screwed for the foreseeable future, because 'rework cards again' is quite a time investment. But, by taking an approach like this, we could theoretically break the 'fixing process' up into stages, to make it less of a strain to get everything done all at once for the expansion launch. For example, this Pepsis idea could be implemented as a 7.3 change. WHM, SCH and AST could see a similar-sized update to part of their gameplay at the same time. Then, in 7.4, another small change comes in, such as updating the Damage rotations a little (eg on SCH, adding back Miasma, Shadowflare and Bane, and rescaling the damage of the DOTs/Broil to allow for them to exist without being 'mandatory' to the gameplay). Over time, as we lead up to 8.0, the groundwork would steadily be laid to set up for the larger scale updates that the expansion would bring (in my ideas, this would include new Job Gauge UI elements, systems that use said Gauges, another rework to the AST cards would occur here to make AST feel like an AST again, etc)