Pld buff or War nerf in 1.22?

[Aceofspades]

I never criticize on your tanking, just wondering how your thm/blm get hit by vulcan burst (and you had to prism cure them)

and as you said if 99& population finds it easier tank with WAR,doesnt it means that WAR is better tank? or you meant that 99% population of this community dont know how to tank>?

no, I meant that 99% of the population loves the easy fix over quality. WAR as of now gets away with tanking, and thats fine. but small fights here and there expose WARs eventual folly, everything that makes it a decent tank comes from dps. gimp DPS and you destroy war as tank. Its realy that simple. where as PLD is far more self sufficiant and reliable.

[Gramul]

Hate Control:

1possable , keep your party close enough to get the effects of Rampart
2If timing alows, use sentinal before as many vokes, hate generating ablities as possable ( keep in mind rampart is not effected by sentinal)
3obviously your simple vokes are flash, provoke and when you can , wardrum. all great when used back to back with sentinal
4 combos, not as easy but should have little difficulty. fast blade to flat blade can be put on a macro, spam it as offten as you can. obvously you should know the spirits within combo, keep that one on your main bar as its use is situational (after a block) and if you have enough tp , pop shield bash when you can too.
5 self heals/ party heals are usefull in hate generation and surviability.
PLD's ability to consistantly generate hate reguardless of what kind of mob you face is what sets its hate generation appart from WAR, war requires to deal decent damage to compete , once you take that away (example, batrall) war generates less hate and far less self heals.

Survivablity
1 add def and vit to your gear, hp is nice, but pointless if normal damage is kicking your ass
2 ageious boon is your best ability
3 stone skin , well timed and or coupled with devine veil is awsome
4 get a shield you can add materia to, and add def.
5 self heals , self explanitory
6 def / vit food works (lanascin toast) think i spelt that right.
7 again Rampart, works great on magic too.
9 did i mention stone skin, yeah, use it, alot.

MP management

well only realy two things you can do here,

Devine veil coupled with outmonuver
or cover with af top peice.
sure you could get agious boon or mp song from bard but thats outside and unrealiable.

damage dealing:

-.- , your a tank. enough said.

Fantastic!

[Aceofspades]

Fantastic!

thank you, but be carefull. agreeing with me on the official "QQ I DONT GET IT!!" forums wont grant you much credit, but credit amoungts ignorance holds little value to me soo to each their own.

[Crysten]

no, I meant that 99% of the population loves the easy fix over quality. WAR as of now gets away with tanking, and thats fine. but small fights here and there expose WARs eventual folly, everything that makes it a decent tank comes from dps. gimp DPS and you destroy war as tank. Its realy that simple. where as PLD is far more self sufficiant and reliable.

This is an interesting point and one of the reasons I'd never play PLD in something like Moogles right now. While I wouldn't go as far as to say WAR is destroyed as a tank when DPS isn't a factor, I will totally agree that they become somewhat limited. A mob with a physical resistance/immunity and a magical weakness would be the kind of mob PLD would shine on.

I think the suggestions have been made already but I'd agree that giving situations where PLDs can handle themselves with a single WHM and produce a higher enmity ceiling would make them far more beneficial than a WAR in the long run.

[Dzian]

no, I meant that 99% of the population loves the easy fix over quality. WAR as of now gets away with tanking, and thats fine. but small fights here and there expose WARs eventual folly, everything that makes it a decent tank comes from dps. gimp DPS and you destroy war as tank. Its realy that simple. where as PLD is far more self sufficiant and reliable.

i personally prefer the effective solution and that usually is warrior. a paladin doesnt generate enough mp to have extended survivability. sure you can use af body to enhance cover. but thats kind of saying that the job is screwed without its af.

in an earlier quote you mentioned war losing hate generation on batraal but so does a pld when batrall is invincible and again the mp regen just isnt enough to give them a decent edge of survivability.... again with cover it either requires af which is kinda broken. basically locking you into using af. or it requires people to stand in harms way so you can cover them. outmanouvere and divine veil sure pair them up but they dont generate enough mp to give you much in the way of survivability. and a warriors parry mitigates more damage than a block.

a warrior can consistently generate hate depending on the mob you face also if you consider antagonising vokes and flashes as a compensation for war drum and using colluion on big nukes etc kind of countering some of the self healing a pld can do. the rest of both classes hate comes from physical.

If somethings so tough that a war can't hurt it then a pld has no chance. and even with spirits within & flat blades emnity modifier. 4.5x no damage = no damage = no emnity.
sure your holy succors would perhaps give you an edge but mp isnt suffiecient enough to make them spammable

secondly defence doesn't mean much at all against bosses as a whm i can sentinel hellfire and take about 850 damage with a fresh stoneskin up. as awar/pld i take about the same with a stoneskin up despite having a lot more defence than my whm.

on your arguement of survivavability if you have multiple mobs hitting on you you increasingly likely to get interrupted with your self heals. which has a detrimental effect on survivability. a war can bloodbath / ms steel cyclones /whirlwinds without any risk of interuption. and with vengance and second wind he can mitigate a good deal of damage and have an instant heal in a pinch.

so i think its pretty wrong to say 99% of people take the easy fix. when a war is simply a better choice at present. (doubly so with current content)

to link your batraal example. have your warrior tank baatraal smash the firstgroup of skeles pull batrall to circle and beat the hell out of him totally ignore the skellies cos he's gonna be dead very fast. it's a really effective strategy which a pld would struggle with

[YuriSan]

GREAT NEWS GANG!!

[Aceofspades]

i personally prefer the effective solution and that usually is warrior. a paladin doesnt generate enough mp to have extended survivability. sure you can use af body to enhance cover. but thats kind of saying that the job is screwed without its af.

in an earlier quote you mentioned war losing hate generation on batraal but so does a pld when batrall is invincible and again the mp regen just isnt enough to give them a decent edge of survivability.... again with cover it either requires af which is kinda broken. basically locking you into using af. or it requires people to stand in harms way so you can cover them. outmanouvere and divine veil sure pair them up but they dont generate enough mp to give you much in the way of survivability. and a warriors parry mitigates more damage than a block.

a warrior can consistently generate hate depending on the mob you face also if you consider antagonising vokes and flashes as a compensation for war drum and using colluion on big nukes etc kind of countering some of the self healing a pld can do. the rest of both classes hate comes from physical.

If somethings so tough that a war can't hurt it then a pld has no chance. and even with spirits within & flat blades emnity modifier. 4.5x no damage = no damage = no emnity.
sure your holy succors would perhaps give you an edge but mp isnt suffiecient enough to make them spammable

secondly defence doesn't mean much at all against bosses as a whm i can sentinel hellfire and take about 850 damage with a fresh stoneskin up. as awar/pld i take about the same with a stoneskin up despite having a lot more defence than my whm.

on your arguement of survivavability if you have multiple mobs hitting on you you increasingly likely to get interrupted with your self heals. which has a detrimental effect on survivability. a war can bloodbath / ms steel cyclones /whirlwinds without any risk of interuption. and with vengance and second wind he can mitigate a good deal of damage and have an instant heal in a pinch.

so i think its pretty wrong to say 99% of people take the easy fix. when a war is simply a better choice at present. (doubly so with current content)

to link your batraal example. have your warrior tank baatraal smash the firstgroup of skeles pull batrall to circle and beat the hell out of him totally ignore the skellies cos he's gonna be dead very fast. it's a really effective strategy which a pld would struggle with

everything you posted above is not only inconclusive but has holes all in it, if a war dosent do damage to it and cant tank it , how in the hell dose that mean PLD cant tank it? PLD already dose shit for dps, the point is we dont need to hit hard to keep hate, stay alive , or pop buffs. as far as your "def dosent mean much at all" .... seriously... ok your right on magic attacks def dose nothing but to reduce it to meaningless is soo wrong. Again, no matter what the boss, the majority of the damage taken is alway physical, that means for the entire duration your def is playing a major role, if there is a magic attack you can not avoid or deflect then no matter what the tank is they are screwed as far as the hp boost war has over pld, 500 on avg, i deflect more damage in the first minute of a boss fight then that. I could go on but its 3 am here, no, rather then argue with yet another ignorant, luv drunk, war fan boy. Think Im just gona finish this in saying, the only thing you posted that makes any sense is when you posted no damage = no emnity wich is exactly why a physical damage resistant mob like batrall is just one example of how war is limited. not to say PLD dosent have its limits, but as a TANK, pld is no where near broken and is far more reliable to war. giving us more HP and DPS capabilities is great but truly, we dont need it.

[Dzian]

everything you posted above is not only inconclusive but has holes all in it, if a war dosent do damage to it and cant tank it , how in the hell dose that mean PLD cant tank it? PLD already dose shit for dps, the point is we dont need to hit hard to keep hate, stay alive , or pop buffs. as far as your "def dosent mean much at all" .... seriously... ok your right on magic attacks def dose nothing but to reduce it to meaningless is soo wrong. Again, no matter what the boss, the majority of the damage taken is alway physical, that means for the entire duration your def is playing a major role, if there is a magic attack you can not avoid or deflect then no matter what the tank is they are screwed as far as the hp boost war has over pld, 500 on avg, i deflect more damage in the first minute of a boss fight then that. I could go on but its 3 am here, no, rather then argue with yet another ignorant, luv drunk, war fan boy. Think Im just gona finish this in saying, the only thing you posted that makes any sense is when you posted no damage = no emnity wich is exactly why a physical damage resistant mob like batrall is just one example of how war is limited. not to say PLD dosent have its limits, but as a TANK, pld is no where near broken and is far more reliable to war. giving us more HP and DPS capabilities is great but truly, we dont need it.

typical paladin using af about ~3400hp typical war using af ~4200hp. surrrrreee the gear has an impact but thats the typical gear people wear on there jobs. so it matters.

on a totally physical immune (which doesnt exist yet) mob how can a pld hold hate significantly over a war. and lets go one step further and say both jobs in the same gear as thats what you seem to do with your hp comparrisons to. put them both in a full set of standard sentinals/cobalt for example

instantly in your effort to lessen the hp gap you've killed a plds cover and outmanouver isn't going to get you that much mp which is going to really impact your healing. and your hate moves consist of sentinal rampart flash voke with physical immunity your spirits within flat blade wardrum and shield bash are all effectively useless (not sure if wardrum generates a static emnity value regardless of damage) your only mp regen is outmanouver which isn't suffiecient enough to make it spammable.

a war same gear as the pld above. has sentinal rampart flash voke antagonise and collusion. with a hint of second wind (really minor but its there)
so yeah he can sentinal vokes and flash, antagonise vokes and flashes thus able to generate more emnity from those alone. he has his rampart. (now before you say plds rampart is enhanced we are talking about your idea of a physically immune mob which typically means the dd are going to be mages and stood nowhere near the tank) and a war has vengance which although the damage reflection part would be useless would still give hive a 50% mitigation. add that to collusioning a blm on his nukes (same physical immune boss) and it seems that the potential emnity generation is not significantly different after all.

so i think that in a totally physically immune boss fight (which doesn't exist yet) a warrior could tank with maybe 90% of a paladins efficiency. but as soon as you can attribute physical damage to the equation that warrior is going to simply going to shoot miles ahead. but sure pld is a bit better in stuff that doesnt exist yet.

to go back to baatral. a warrior can tank him while everyone else smashes the first wave of skeles. by which time hes got enough hate that everyone else can pretty much go all out and drop him so fast the next waves of skeles can be totally ignored. you cant do that with a pld. which ultimately means war has greater survivability. if its dead before it can hurt you you dont need healing kinda philosophy

Edit:- I will just say I am not a war fanboy. pld is my favorite class. and i'm looking forward to 1.22b with great anticipation

[yialee]

Idk wtf SE doing to this game anymore b/c from the look of thing atm it like a child game where you just flip a coin, head war>pld Tail pld>. From the look of this seem Tail b/c they double slaping war with a nerf on damage and boost to pld. All they gotta do is just boost pld Hp like what all the pld ppl biching about and boost pld enmity or give them a enmity ability and it good. Waiiit should we now make war use a wooden axe too and do 1 damage only too and let pld crital every hit. Waiiit let give pld 50k hp and war 500. For love of mmo game wtf is the pro in this. What about the arc and blm mage they get to ninja this right?

[SwordCoheir]

They're just making it where WAR can't tank as well and be a solid DD at the same time, it would be a nerf if they weren't buffing its DPS when it's NOT TANKING, but it is getting buffed so it's more like things are getting moved around on WAR rather than taking anything away.