#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Shurrikhan]

Ok let's break this down. Dosis III, Eukrasion Dosis III, Dykrasia II, and Eukrasion Dykrasia II adds up to 4 spells. Counting Eukraisa, that's only 3 hotbar spaces to access all 4 of them.

But Eukrasia also impacts heal GCDs. So when you add in Diagnosis, Eukrasion Diagnosis, Prognosis, and Eukrasion Prognosis, that's 8 total spells that only takes up 5 spaces on my hotbar.

So yes. Eukrasia changes the amount of space needed for my GCD skills.

I replied to your discussion of their offensive place in single-target combat. Of those, only Dosis III and Eukrasian Dosis III are relevant, and are analogous to any other filler-DoT pair.

But by all means, let's run your example through more broadly.

Your means of performing your GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 5 keys (Dosis, Dykrasis, Diagnosis, Prognosis, Eukrasia).
SCH's means of performing their GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 6 keys (Broil, Biolysis, Art of War, Adloquiem, Succor, Physick), of which only 5 keys are actually used.
WHM's means of performing their GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 7 keys (Glare, Dia, Holy, Cure II, Regen, Medica, Medica II), of which only 6 keys are actually used.
AST's means of performing their GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 7 keys (Malefic, Combust, Gravity, Benefic II, Aspected Benefic, Helix, Aspected Helix), of which only 5 keys are generally used.

So its savings relative to other kit designs are, in effect... 1 in 32 keys.

And I'm not sure why this needs to be repeated after so many times, but since you're seemingly continuing to interpret critiques of healer same-ish-ness as if said critiques disliked what little distinction exists...

...none of this is to say that Eukrasia is bad. It simply happens to be laughable to say that hitting your DoT once per 30 seconds on SGE feels different just because you hit [2]->[1] instead of the normal [1] instead of just hitting [2] instead of [1] or that hitting your STHeal+ GCD feels different from AST hitting its STHeal+ GCD just because you hit [2]->[3] instead of just [3], etc., let alone that those fractional changes actually allow SGE gameplay to feel distinct from SCH (or even the broader basic healer template altogether).

I.e., that Sage's uniqueness could have been, was implied to be, and should have been far more than what we got.

And people trying to, say, put an [obligatory 1s GCD + 1.5s GCD pair] on a pedestal as if it were sufficiently unique from any [2.5s GCD with identical control and considerations] to make its job feel truly distinct... only makes it harder to get there.

[YarnMage48]

I replied to your discussion of their offensive place in single-target combat. Of those, only Dosis III and Eukrasian Dosis III are relevant, and are analogous to any other filler-DoT pair.

But by all means, let's run your example through more broadly.

Your means of performing your GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 5 keys (Dosis, Dykrasis, Diagnosis, Prognosis, Eukrasia).
SCH's means of performing their GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 6 keys (Broil, Biolysis, Art of War, Adloquiem, Succor, Physick), of which only 5 keys are actually used.
WHM's means of performing their GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 7 keys (Glare, Dia, Holy, Cure II, Regen, Medica, Medica II), of which only 6 keys are actually used.
AST's means of performing their GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 7 keys (Malefic, Combust, Gravity, Benefic II, Aspected Benefic, Helix, Aspected Helix), of which only 5 keys are generally used.

So its savings relative to other kit designs are, in effect... 1 in 32 keys.

And I'm not sure why this needs to be repeated after so many times, but since you're seemingly continuing to interpret critiques of healer same-ish-ness as if said critiques disliked what little distinction exists...

...none of this is to say that Eukrasia is bad. It simply happens to be laughable to say that hitting your DoT once per 30 seconds on SGE feels different just because you hit [2]->[1] instead of the normal [1] instead of just hitting [2] instead of [1] or that hitting your STHeal+ GCD feels different from AST hitting its STHeal+ GCD just because you hit [2]->[3] instead of just [3], etc., let alone that those fractional changes actually allow SGE gameplay to feel distinct from SCH (or even the broader basic healer template altogether).

I.e., that Sage's uniqueness could have been, was implied to be, and should have been far more than what we got.

And people trying to, say, put an [obligatory 1s GCD + 1.5s GCD pair] on a pedestal as if it were sufficiently unique from any [2.5s GCD with identical control and considerations] to make its job feel truly distinct... only makes it harder to get there.

Look mate. I said that Eukrasia reduces the amount of hotbar spaces needed for all of Sage's GCD skills. That's it. No amount of red herrings changes the fact that 5 is less than 8.

And there was another poster who literally said that they dislike having to hit Eukrasia and that it feels awful to them. By all means. Laugh at them. Since you think their opinion is laughable. I personally think that it's a completely valid opinion.

I'd love to see the Kardia and Eukrasia system expanded upon. There have been some really fun ideas put forward in their thread and I hope that we might see some cool changes in the future. But I also enjoy Sage in its current iteration. That's all there is to it.

[Supersnow845]

But I also enjoy Sage in its current iteration. That's all there is to it.

That’s the thing though if you enjoy SGE in its current form then that’s totally fine, nobody said you can’t. This whole discussion started from you pointing out that you don’t feel like the “SGE is a worse SCH” topic is valid because you believe it comes from only looking at similarities and not differences. When we pointed out that to us by and large the CURRENT eukrasia system is difference for the sake of difference and not meaningful difference as every “thing” it confers SCH has an answer to then to you it seemed like we think eukrasia is bad

Eukrasia isn’t a bad system, it’s an under-utilised system that between it not doing anything terrible unique and the existence of Seraphism means that it doesn’t really act meaningfully different to what SCH does. Kardia is similar with its impact relative to the fairy. Addersgall is actually a blatant rip off of aetherflow and the rest of the unique skills have mirroring effects

[YarnMage48]

That’s the thing though if you enjoy SGE in its current form then that’s totally fine, nobody said you can’t. This whole discussion started from you pointing out that you don’t feel like the “SGE is a worse SCH” topic is valid because you believe it comes from only looking at similarities and not differences. When we pointed out that to us by and large the CURRENT eukrasia system is difference for the sake of difference and not meaningful difference as every “thing” it confers SCH has an answer to then to you it seemed like we think eukrasia is bad

Eukrasia isn’t a bad system, it’s an under-utilised system that between it not doing anything terrible unique and the existence of Seraphism means that it doesn’t really act meaningfully different to what SCH does. Kardia is similar with its impact relative to the fairy. Addersgall is actually a blatant rip off of aetherflow and the rest of the unique skills have mirroring effects

No, I've been saying from the very beginning that Sage and Scholar are simply different, and that neither one is better or worse than the other.

I have also laid out what I consider to be meaningful differences between the classes.

I also discussed barriers for further differentiation.

You say that Eukrasia isn't bad, but then you lay out all the reasons you don't like it. Usually when something is referred to as a "blatant rip-off", that means its considered bad. If all you do is criticize, then I'm going to reach the logical conclusion that you think it's bad. If you don't think its bad, then tell me what you like about it.

[Supersnow845]

No, I've been saying from the very beginning that Sage and Scholar are simply different, and that neither one is better or worse than the other.

I have also laid out what I consider to be meaningful differences between the classes.

I also discussed barriers for further differentiation.

You say that Eukrasia isn't bad, but then you lay out all the reasons you don't like it. Usually when something is referred to as a "blatant rip-off", that means its considered bad. If all you do is criticize, then I'm going to reach the logical conclusion that you think it's bad. If you don't think its bad, then tell me what you like about it.

I said that addersgall is a rip off- because that’s what it is. I have zero positive to say about addersgall, it is the worst healer system by a country mile

Eukrasia isn’t bad, it’s under-utilised. I like the augmentation angle and I like the fact that it COULD be used to meaningfully reduce button space, the sound of eukrasia is also 11/10 SFX design, one of the best sound designs in the entire game.

My problem comes from the fact that eukrasia doesn’t add anything to SGE IN ITS CURRENT FORM. You refresh your DOT once per 30 seconds and if you want to GCD shield you basically always want the eukrasian version…………making it exactly the same as how SCH refreshes thier DOT and presses succor/adlo. I think that CONCEPTUALLY the eukrasia system controlling the DOT is interesting, in practice it adds nothing to the class. And that’s my wider problem with SGE/SCH. There is a lot of “differences” if you ignore the fact that when you are using these skills the differences end up functionally meaningless. Pressing eukrasia to access a DOT you were going to press anyway is not a meaningful difference, putting a buff on the tank and then healing when you press your damage button is not meaningfully different to summoning eos and having her cast embrace

Think of this way I transplanted my mitigation plan 1 for 1 from SCH to SGE in multiple savages and had literally zero problems, if I pressed holos I pressed expedience, if I pressed indom I pressed ixochole and so on. I shouldn’t be able to transplant a mitigation plan with zero changes and have it not just work, but work near flawlessly: this tells me the classes only have superficial differences

[YarnMage48]

I said that addersgall is a rip off- because that’s what it is. I have zero positive to say about addersgall, it is the worst healer system by a country mile

Eukrasia isn’t bad, it’s under-utilised. I like the augmentation angle and I like the fact that it COULD be used to meaningfully reduce button space, the sound of eukrasia is also 11/10 SFX design, one of the best sound designs in the entire game.

My problem comes from the fact that eukrasia doesn’t add anything to SGE IN ITS CURRENT FORM. You refresh your DOT once per 30 seconds and if you want to GCD shield you basically always want the eukrasian version…………making it exactly the same as how SCH refreshes thier DOT and presses succor/adlo. I think that CONCEPTUALLY the eukrasia system controlling the DOT is interesting, in practice it adds nothing to the class. And that’s my wider problem with SGE/SCH. There is a lot of “differences” if you ignore the fact that when you are using these skills the differences end up functionally meaningless. Pressing eukrasia to access a DOT you were going to press anyway is not a meaningful difference, putting a buff on the tank and then healing when you press your damage button is not meaningfully different to summoning eos and having her cast embrace

Think of this way I transplanted my mitigation plan 1 for 1 from SCH to SGE in multiple savages and had literally zero problems, if I pressed holos I pressed expedience, if I pressed indom I pressed ixochole and so on. I shouldn’t be able to transplant a mitigation plan with zero changes and have it not just work, but work near flawlessly: this tells me the classes only have superficial differences

I see I see. Well we like the same things as least.

Do you also hate Aetherflow? If not, what makes you hate Addersgall specifically? Not being critical just curious.

I am curious too about the transplantation of your heal plan. Holos also has a heal, did you not utilize the heal, was it not needed? Did you hit something else to replace it, or did your co-healer have to adjust? Did you use Pnuema and Panhaima? What did those transfer as?

[Supersnow845]

I see I see. Well we like the same things as least.

Do you also hate Aetherflow? If not, what makes you hate Addersgall specifically? Not being critical just curious.

I am curious too about the transplantation of your heal plan. Holos also has a heal, did you not utilize the heal, was it not needed? Did you hit something else to replace it, or did your co-healer have to adjust? Did you use Pnuema and Panhaima? What did those transfer as?

I hate addersgall because it’s just aetherflow. Aetherflow was designed as it is and is balanced well against energy drain and dissipation, the skills aetherflow offers are diverse and have good niches (sacred soil is too strong but that’s a different argument) but my problem with addersgall is that it’s just aetherflow with none of aetherflow’s nuance, 2 of its skills are completely identical, a third is functionally identical and one has a slightly different niche but still broadly used in the same situation. Also dumping druachole stacks for mana is probably the worst mana economy decision this game has ever given birth to. The skills also just don’t fit well into SGE’s kit, like indom exists because in ARR SCH had almost no AOE healing outside of succor. So it was given indom because SCH’s lack of AOE healing was damaging WHM’s mana economy, why does SGE need indom? It’s arguable these days that even SCH needs indom

And with the heal plan panhaima is just seraph and pnuema can be substituted with recitation indom. It’s rare I use holos heal rather than its mitigation but if needed that can be subbed with blessing