Raiders, why do you consider raiding just not memory games ?

[Hallarem]

It is like this because its easy on the devs. They can just keep repeating the formula and not touch the jobs in any meaningful way.
Everyone is just a glorified dps, I heard a new tier of something got cleared without healers again.

This game's design is really clownshoes babys first MMO at times.
TAnks need to be tanks
Healers need to be healers
Dps needs to be dps

[AllenThyl]

Raiders, why do you consider raiding just not memory games ?

Because just the act of "knowing" the fight is not sufficient for clearing it, on a pure mechanical level. The ability to perform the proper job rotation while moving and resolving mechanics is non-trivial compared to "flipping and picking cards", which is the standard action for playing a "pure" memory game like "concentration".

All this together makes, from my perspective, being a good raider (Assuming guides exist), the ability to follow a set of instructions by someone else while doing your rotation, which in itself is also defined by others. There is very little if any need to adjust on the fly beyond what has already been defined as possible to happen.

You are framing this all in a very strange way. The guides basically show examples how mechanics put in by the developers can be resolved. A mechanic "protean followed by stack-sharable aoes on role groups" does not mean that it needs to be solved by the standard pf clock positions. But the standard pf clock positions are a reliable way to solve them. Further, after years of raiding, the whole "adjust on the fly" usually means "making up for someone else's mistake".

If it is that way, it feels like it's just a matter of time before 8 players could walk into an instance with a mod, press play and they clear.

And? Machines are already more efficient at most tasks than humans. The point of a game, is to play the game. Too large a part of this game's population has really lost sight of what's actually important in life. It's how you get all these "Legends" who struggle with basic movement and mechanics. It's the whole "I let ChatGPT write my essay" non-sense, when the point of the exercise is to learn to write these essays in the first place.

[Red-thunder]

perform the proper job rotation while moving and resolving mechanics is non-trivial

ok GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE

oh you mean DPS? ok

ONE TWO THREE ONE TWO THREE ONE TWO THREE oops let me spend my resources FOUR! ONE TWO THREE ONE TWO THREE ONE TWO THREE

[Themarvin]

Doing raids in the old days and even before WoW as well was in fact way more thrilling... you really had to act more to the situations and more to it and it made it fun...

Today you need to watch a clown with a mic, who has made a video, or listen to someone calling stuff out on voice chat and have stuff like cactbot and more...

I think we need to think about taking away additional tools from raiding and similar content and be more about actually playing the game, it is sad as it is today, and further more extremely toxic.

This is also a SE/Blizzard and whatever company's fault as well, making classes/jobs none playable without having to follow some pattern that in many cases make next to no sense at all.

[AllenThyl]

ok GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE

oh you mean DPS? ok

ONE TWO THREE ONE TWO THREE ONE TWO THREE oops let me spend my resources FOUR! ONE TWO THREE ONE TWO THREE ONE TWO THREE

Yes, and? That's the current skill expression in this game (if you want a single digit gray parse and aren't interested in meeting the damage check). Other games require different skill expression, like pressing the same 4 buttons but in a slightly different sequence and with a bit of different delay. Chess only requires moving the pieces on a board, and maybe pressing the clock.

[Red-thunder]

Yes, and? That's the current skill expression in this game (if you want a single digit gray parse and aren't interested in meeting the damage check). Other games require different skill expression, like pressing the same 4 buttons but in a slightly different sequence and with a bit of different delay. Chess only requires moving the pieces on a board, and maybe pressing the clock.

brb real quick getting a pink by adding a dia every 30s and then crit farming my miseries for 390258092358 runs and jumping off if the fight doesn't end at exactly 6:25

PEAK SKILL EXPRESSION

[AllenThyl]

brb real quick getting a pink by adding a dia every 30s and then crit farming my miseries for 390258092358 runs and jumping off if the fight doesn't end at exactly 6:25

PEAK SKILL EXPRESSION

Damn man. If only there were any other games which feature different gameplay more to your liking.

[Red-thunder]

Damn man. If only there were any other games which feature different gameplay more to your liking.

Of course there is, I don't play this game, I just laugh at how bad it is and at the raiders who think memorizing a raidplan and farming the fight 239056802385 times to get a pink because their midare gets 90% crit rate is peak skill expression

When will these people admit that they don't actually play the game for skill expression, they literally play it just for the shiny pink or gold number on a third party website so they can brag about it on fflogs discord and brandish their numbers when they need to convince kihra to not count a section of the fight they're bad at towards their performance

[AllenThyl]

Of course there is, I don't play this game, I just laugh at how bad it is and at the raiders who think memorizing a raidplan and farming the fight 239056802385 times to get a pink because their midare gets 90% crit rate is peak skill expression

When will these people admit that they don't actually play the game for skill expression, they literally play it just for the shiny pink or gold number on a third party website so they can brag about it on fflogs discord and brandish their numbers when they need to convince kihra to not count a section of the fight they're bad at towards their performance

By own admission, you don't even play this game, why do you care how people who do spend their time doing it? You are one of those people who constantly get told to "mind your own business", aren't you?

[Starrya]

From my POV there is the plan (Be it video or written), that plan has step by step instructions of what to do (Follow the instructions, do not panic, do your job.), if the group is a static as they become familiar with each step of the plan they progress further and further until clear and then faster and faster until its just farmable.

This is exactly how it is, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but it is still quite fun if you enjoy that kind of thing. The higher the tier of difficulty you go up, the more you and your team have to work to win. It's the same reason why some people love the Souls games and some people hate the Souls games. At its core, the game just presents you with attack patterns you have to learn how to navigate while doing as much damage as possible. Some people even decide they want to speed run those games, which would be akin to farming a fight in FFXIV. Everyone knows that, say, waterfowl dance is just a series of attack patterns you have to memorize and dodge, but that doesn't make it easy. And the sense of joy you get when you finally succeed is still every bit as real even though it's always the same.

Unlike the Souls games, though, FFXIV gives the opportunity to share that experience with others. Again, this is not everyone's cup of tea, but if you have a static or a group of pals you can improve together with, that can add something that single player games can't, which is the sense of teamwork you get from playing and improving together with others. If you are only interested in your own improvement, it can be a huge source of frustration to know how to clear a fight and have to wait for someone else to get it together.

The harder the raids you do, the more aspects of the game you are asked to be better at simultaneously, and the bigger the sense of accomplishment you get when you beat them.