I thought the solo duties were frustrating...

[Mawlzy]

Because i have too much experience about the game i guess?

You certainly got too much something, sugar.

[Supersnow845]

Okay we're now talking about things that matter.

Being able to clear this solo duty has very little to do with one's competence to engage in group content. What is it actually measuring? Ping? As I have said, my friend has cleared everything through 90, usually with duty support. She plays a couple of jobs well enough not to be a drain when playing with others.

I completely agree there's a problem that many people at level 100 don't understand the basics of their job. They therefore have a negative impact when engaging in group content. But gating through duties is not the way to solve the issue. And (somewhat orthogonally) simply making dungeons, trials and raids faster with the same monotonous DDR philosophy is driving some people from the game because it is boring combat design, while clipping off older people due purely to the increasing speed. Something that is massively magnified by bad ping which in turn is an accident of geography.

Here's an idea. You will likely agree that in leveling dungeons, it is the expectation of the player base that tanks pull W2W. Where does one learn this? Should this not be gated? I'd suggest the obvious place to gate ability is in job/role quests. If someone cannot play tank in the way the players expect, they are prevented from doing through a role quest. They either learn or they play another job. Same applies to healers and dps.

The problem at the moment is that bizarre and irrelevant solo duties are gating people from the MSQ for no good reason.

Being able to clear solo duties shows that you yourself are able to meaningfully contribute. I’m not directing this directly at your friend but just in general this game hides how poorly people perform. If you are playing a WHM and kinda just face rolling your keyboard and the WAR is doing 90% of their own self healing you can feel like you are “contributing” when really you are just kinda there. Same as if they were a DPS. How are they aware they are meaningfully contributing? It’s very easy to feel like you are doing your rotation semi correctly only to be told that you are being out DPS’ed by the healer.

If you feel like you are meaningfully contributing in a group setting but are getting walled by solo duties there is a good chance the game is simply hiding your lack of contribution. There needs to be checks every now and then that YOU are reaching the adequate competence level, not that collective group is

[Mawlzy]

Being able to clear solo duties shows that you yourself are able to meaningfully contribute. I’m not directing this directly at your friend but just in general this game hides how poorly people perform. If you are playing a WHM and kinda just face rolling your keyboard and the WAR is doing 90% of their own self healing you can feel like you are “contributing” when really you are just kinda there. Same as if they were a DPS. How are they aware they are meaningfully contributing? It’s very easy to feel like you are doing your rotation semi correctly only to be told that you are being out DPS’ed by the healer.

If you feel like you are meaningfully contributing in a group setting but are getting walled by solo duties there is a good chance the game is simply hiding your lack of contribution. There needs to be checks every now and then that YOU are reaching the adequate competence level, not that collective group is

I mean, I sort of agree with you, but: 1. who determines that minimum level of competence; 2. does it matter provided that MSQ group content can be completed with NPCs? (Like you can make a case for content being gated when playing with other players.)

I'm really disturbed by the idea that people can play this game for years, get invested (both emotionally and financially) in their character, the story, and communal activities with their friends, then this huge hand comes down a la Monty Python and a voice booms: "Thou Shalt Not Pass."

[Supersnow845]

I mean, I sort of agree with you, but: 1. who determines that minimum level of competence; 2. does it matter provided that MSQ group content can be completed with NPCs? (Like you can make a case for content being gated when playing with other players.)

I'm really disturbed by the idea that people can play this game for years, get invested (both emotionally and financially) in their character, the story, and communal activities with their friends, then this huge hand comes down a la Monty Python and a voice booms: "Thou Shalt Not Pass."

The minimum competence is set at “can complete x solo duty”, if you are failing solo duties on very easy then the devs obviously think that your level of competence isn’t worth designing for (again in the nicest way possible). You can just as well ask the reverse question, how do you design a game around not having a skill floor

[Arohk]

2. does it matter provided that MSQ group content can be completed with NPCs?

What is the point of a video game with combat, if you can't fail?
Maybe a game where you can fail and die(with no punishment what so ever) is not the right thing for you, i am sure there are a lot of video games that provide no challenge at all.

You should be able to carry your own weight in a multiplayer game. You can say that does it matter if a duty takes 10 minutes or 25 minutes? maybe you don't care but your party members might care.

[Mawlzy]

The minimum competence is set at “can complete x solo duty”, if you are failing solo duties on very easy then the devs obviously think that your level of competence isn’t worth designing for (again in the nicest way possible). You can just as well ask the reverse question, how do you design a game around not having a skill floor

Depends what you think 14 is, I guess. If it's really "story-driven," I don't see it needs a skill floor, but personally I would find a game without one dull. We are the Warrior of Light after all; it makes sense we should blap stuff.

I mostly play PvP and have concluded the devs have no idea what they're doing, so I'm not inclined to regard their determination of an appropriate skill floor as being written on stone tablets.

I've also never understood why skilled players complain about MSQ combat being a snooze-fest. Isn't this why you guys get all the extra stuff that casuals don't do? I may be missing something here, but it comes across as gating for no other reason than to boot out paying customers with whom you will never interact. It's consistent with historic gamer nerd culture, but not helpful in a game that attempts to appeal to a wide spectrum of players.

That said, I agree with you that players engaging in combat with other players should pull their weight, hence my suggestion for gating via job/role quests.

[Supersnow845]

Depends what you think 14 is, I guess. If it's really "story-driven," I don't see it needs a skill floor, but personally I would find a game without one dull. We are the Warrior of Light after all; it makes sense we should blap stuff.

I mostly play PvP and have concluded the devs have no idea what they're doing, so I'm not inclined to regard their determination of an appropriate skill floor as being written on stone tablets.

I've also never understood why skilled players complain about MSQ combat being a snooze-fest. Isn't this why you guys get all the extra stuff that casuals don't do? I may be missing something here, but it comes across as gating for no other reason than to boot out paying customers with whom you will never interact. It's consistent with historic gamer nerd culture, but not helpful in a game that attempts to appeal to a wide spectrum of players.

That said, I agree with you that players engaging in combat with other players should pull their weight, hence my suggestion for gating via job/role quests.

People don’t complain about the MSQ content being boring they complain about the general endgame casual content being boring because they cater to people who can’t do the solo duties, that was basically the dev philosophy behind such heavy hitters as “fell court of Troia” and “thelia”

[Mawlzy]

People don’t complain about the MSQ content being boring they complain about the general endgame casual content being boring because they cater to people who can’t do the solo duties, that was basically the dev philosophy behind such heavy hitters as “fell court of Troia” and “thelia”

Not following. They might find the endgame casual content boring, but casuals don't. I just ran an alt through Troia, it's bloody difficult for me.

Casual content is just that; casual. For those that want something more challenging, there are plenty of options. The fact some giggling dev on 18ms ping decides to screw over people who've played for years strikes me as sadistic.

[Supersnow845]

Not following. They might find the endgame casual content boring, but casuals don't. I just ran an alt through Troia, it's bloody difficult for me.

Casual content is just that; casual. For those that want something more challenging, there are plenty of options. The fact some giggling dev on 18ms ping decides to screw over people who've played for years strikes me as sadistic.

You also have to understand you are not the only type of “causal”

I have many friends who are “casuals” by their own admission, won’t touch extreme or harder content with a 10 foot pole but found every piece of EW’s casual content so easy they felt insulted by it and they welcome what DT has currently done so far to casual content

Are they any less “right” than you are. The devs might just see them as the more important demographic

[Mawlzy]

You also have to understand you are not the only type of “causal”

I have many friends who are “casuals” by their own admission, won’t touch extreme or harder content with a 10 foot pole but found every piece of EW’s casual content so easy they felt insulted by it and they welcome what DT has currently done so far to casual content

Are they any less “right” than you are. The devs might just see them as the more important demographic

It's quite clear the devs do see that demographic as more important. If this trend continues, it will lock out an increasing fraction of players. It is not a question of right or wrong. One path keeps a subset of players slightly happier. The other kicks people from the game. When that latter group includes friends I've played with for years here and elsewhere, I will complain. Noisily, as you've doubtless noticed.