Apyaahi was right. DT Final Role Quest Spoilers

[Dikatis]

Why are people still trying to explain what was bad with Apyaahi's behavior when it has literally nothing to do with the OP?
Go home, watsonians, you're lost.

No.

She doesn't have a point because she's not interested in actually solving anything. None of what she says is news to us. And she actively loathes the idea of anyone being accommodating or generally reasonable to anyone else.

This is most notable in her balking at Limsa Lominsa pivoting away from piracy. To quote her, "Once lawless pirates are made to bow to the state." This is an unambiguously GOOD thing. Lominsan piracy is shown by literally everyone to be entirely unsustainable and counterproductive compared to seeking legitimate ventures. It has actively jeopardized the safety and well-being of people by perpetuating the city-state's war with the Sahagin and Kobolds. An entire storyline is dedicated to ending this war and showing just how self-destructive its piracy is.

Her sentiments are also extremely outdated in other cases. Ishgard and Doma are in the midst of reforms to ensure that another Dragonsong War and another Yotsuyu never happens again. Gridania is opening its borders more and has buried the hatchet with its oldest enemy, Ala Mhigo, who comes to Gridania's aid in raiding the ruins of Dalamud to power the Ragnarok and save all life in the universe. Ul'dahn merchants may still be in power, but Nanamo has half of Lolorito's fortune, two allies on the Syndicate in Pipin and Godbert, and underwent a great deal of growth and maturity to become an effective leader. Ul'dah did not have a blasphemy manifest under her leadership, she has recreated a formal alliance between Ul'dah and the Amal'jaa, and we see Lolorito in talks with refugees and other downtrodden people to provide them better employment.

Apyaahi's points only have merit on a surface level, much like how Varis' criticisms of the city-states only bite due to the leaders' regrets and fall to pieces when the heroes learn of Varis' race war aspirations in continuing the Rejoining.

Stop trying to end the conversation by claiming "you lost" when you clearly haven't "won" since this is a discussion, not a debate.

[MikkoAkure]

Why are people still trying to explain what was bad with Apyaahi's behavior when it has literally nothing to do with the OP?
Go home, watsonians, you're lost.

The OP is basing their whole point using in-game "Watsonian" (god I hate that term) references on Apyaahi's philosophy being "right", when multiple characters point out where it's flawed. "Freedom that harms others is no freedom at all". The character's point is objectively wrong for reasons I already pointed out and her whole method to enact their philosophy involving harming innocent civilians around the world.

From an outside perspective, the character has nothing new to say to players that hasn't already been in story lines already. Instead we're given a different take where someone who might have something good to say instead ruins any support they could have received by just being a really crappy person.

All of the role quests themselves leaned much more into the silly side than serious and the premise was extremely silly from the very first cutscene of the first quest that leads into the role quests. I'm not sure why people are surprised or what you were expecting when the tone has been set since the very beginning and throughout.

[Wasselin]

Why are people still trying to explain what was bad with Apyaahi's behavior when it has literally nothing to do with the OP?
Go home, watsonians, you're lost.

Thank you. I realize this is my fault for titling my post "Apyaahi was right." Most people are just responding to that.

[Gourdian]

Stop trying to end the conversation by claiming "you lost" when you clearly haven't "won" since this is a discussion, not a debate.

Oh man it keeps happening. They do not mean/did not say “you lost” as in “you have been defeated”. They mean “you’re lost” as in “you are trying to bat in a football game.”

[Dikatis]

Oh man it keeps happening. They do not mean/did not say “you lost” as in “you have been defeated”. They mean “you’re lost” as in “you are trying to bat in a football game.”

I'll admit to misreading that. But as I've stated before, the "Apyaahi was right" crowd keeps treating her as though she's made some grand revelations about the state of the setting when she hasn't told us anything we don't know and neglects the changes that have happened since Apyaahi traveled through them.

[Valence]

I don't know what strawman you're trying to build, but keep digging.
I still have no idea what you're fighting against beyond that. It's pretty incredible in a way, you all came in with the intent to argue like crazy about something else entirely, and you're still not seeing it.

[Dikatis]

Finally, this reflects a trend in recent quests: turning the Warrior of Light into a tool of the state or a mercenary. Are we adventurers and champions of the downtrodden, or just enforcers for those in power? The lack of dialogue options that let us empathize with characters like Apyaahi is what I find most offensive. It robs the story of depth and undermines the very ideals our character is supposed to represent.

Regarding this. Would you mind pointing me toward where the Warrior of Light has been pointed at downtrodden people as a weapon of the state? Because the Unbound are not that. Most of the Unbound's leaders come from places of privilege. Ellerette is a well-off enough alchemist to wear fine fabrics and is skilled enough to be able to subvert natural processes that would disrupt her mass poisoning plan. Virazahn is the son of a wealthy merchant, Chalteaufite robbed caravans to buy himself the Lunar Envoy set (and gear fit for adventurers of WoL's caliber is stated to be as expensive as a house), and Leophyne is a disgraced member of the Temple Knights and nobility. The only ones with a remotely pitiable background are Samidare, who developed misanthropy from being conscripted by the Garleans, and Apyaahi, whose backstory as a member of a restrictive tribe is told in a way clearly meant to gain sympathy. Even then, Apyaahi is still in a place of privilege as someone with nearly unquestioned command of dozens or hundreds of people, wealth through Virazahn, and connections through her many followers. So that leaves Samidare, who abuses the power of the Dreamweave Cocoon that he stole from I'toca's and Kuiyki's tribe in an effort to foment war for no reason other than self-gratification.

In what world is he the pitiable, downtrodden person being crushed by the state?

I don't know what strawman you're trying to build, but keep digging.
I still have no idea what you're fighting against beyond that. It's pretty incredible in a way, you all came in with the intent to argue like crazy about something else entirely, and you're still not seeing it.

The post came in with argument that Apyaahi has a point and quotes her at length in an effort to make that argument. So we're refuting that argument.

[Supersnow845]

Regarding this. Would you mind pointing me toward where the Warrior of Light has been pointed at downtrodden people as a weapon of the state? Because the Unbound are not that. Most of the Unbound's leaders come from places of privilege. Ellerette is a well-off enough alchemist to wear fine fabrics and is skilled enough to be able to subvert natural processes that would disrupt her mass poisoning plan. Virazahn is the son of a wealthy merchant, Chalteaufite robbed caravans to buy himself the Lunar Envoy set (and gear fit for adventurers of WoL's caliber is stated to be as expensive as a house), and Leophyne is a disgraced member of the Temple Knights and nobility. The only ones with a remotely pitiable background are Samidare, who developed misanthropy from being conscripted by the Garleans, and Apyaahi, whose backstory as a member of a restrictive tribe is told in a way clearly meant to gain sympathy. Even then, Apyaahi is still in a place of privilege as someone with nearly unquestioned command of dozens or hundreds of people, wealth through Virazahn, and connections through her many followers. So that leaves Samidare, who abuses the power of the Dreamweave Cocoon that he stole from I'toca's and Kuiyki's tribe in an effort to foment war for no reason other than self-gratification.

In what world is he the pitiable, downtrodden person being crushed by the state?



The post came in with argument that Apyaahi has a point and quotes her at length in an effort to make that argument. So we're refuting that argument.

Well more than once we’ve begrudgingly acted in the syndicates interests in order to maintain the peace in uldah and we’ve also done the same in kugane

Sure there is a valid argument to be made that corrupt stability is better than anarchy or bloody war to replace corrupt stability with different corrupt stability but to pretend like the WOL has never been functionally a no choice agent in maintaining the stability of the state is also just wrong

There is also instances like with the kobolds that the limsan’s are 100% in the wrong but we represent limsa’s interests more than the kobolds in the name of future peace despite the kobolds being the ones wronged in the situation

[Wasselin]

I want to refer you to this line in my original post.

But instead of developing her ideas further, the writers reduced her to a foolish character meant to be ridiculed—turning her passion for freedom into a joke. It comes across as mockery of anyone who seeks to challenge societal oppression.

Personally, I'm not interested in debating Apyaahi's moral character.

In what you quoted I concede I am a bit unclear. My statement was not meant to be confined to just the Dawntrail role quests.

It feels like there's been a shift in how the Warrior of Light is written, moving away from being a hero or adventurer. Perhaps the writers are trying to be more "lighthearted" or "comedic," but in doing so, they seem to be stripping away the nuance they once explored.

They used to delve into themes like class consciousness, but recently, they appear to be steering away from that. For example, the Turali Travel Agency quests tasks us with setting up a tourism industry. However, these quests are written in a way that seems to erase or naively dismiss the harms tourism can inflict on local cultures and communities. Many recent quest lines have this entrepreneurial angle, where we are using our might or our fame to assist NPCs with selling things to the supposed benefit of all. This is what I mean when I refer to the Warrior of Light being transformed into a mercenary.

They are written in such a way so that there aren't any victims but only due to the writers choosing not to explore the consequences or writing solutions that to me, seem hopelessly naive. For example in the MSQ in Shaaloani

we help the railroad expand and deal with native people and environmental concerns that played out a lot differently in the real-world analogue they are drawing heavy inspiration from.

[Hallarem]

I can't believe people are unironically debating the morality of a badly written slapstick story that had horrible pacing.

slapstick -> trying to milk you for sympathy in the desert watching the stars -> randomly brutal comment about a clear buffoon in two dialogue options that was unnecessarily serious -> more slapstick and comedy.

I had no idea what they were going for with this story, they should've just stuck to Hildibrand levels of slapstick and called it a day. The writers are SO BAD