8.0 rework will be a joke

[Dzian]

The main issue with doing that is jobs are very fixed in what they can do. As it stands, they want a person to be able to "main" a single job and never change from it. In order to allow some jobs to be significantly stronger in some fights but not others, they would need to expect people to play multiple jobs, or remove the concept of jobs and allow them be able to switch what abilities they can use at will like Blue Mages do

IMO much of this also stems from encounter design and the fact raids for example are literally 1 room 1 boss. If raids were bigger and contained multiple bosses. something akin to alliance raids you could then create scenarios where boss Job X is weak in bosses A and D. but stronger in bosses B and E. and fairly middle of the road in boss C. Job Y by contrast may be strong against bosses A and C but we weaker against bosses B and D, middle of the road for boss E.

Well designed content would create so much opportunity. in a way you could liken it to an FPS. a well designed map has areas that favour differing builds. open areas of the map likely favour sniper rifles, enclosed areas may favour shotguns or smgs. but a player cannot carry every type of weapon in there loadout at the same time. so naturally in some areas of the map they will have the upper hand. in others they will be at a disadvantage. this is what makes it fun and interesting.

This would also keep to the philosophy that players still only "need" 1 job as its weaknesses would be compensated by its strengths over content as a whole not per individual encounter.

ffxiv content is currently 1 big room 1 big boss. and thats one of its big problems. fixing that would be a massive first step towards fixing everything else

[CaedemSanguis]

IMO much of this also stems from encounter design and the fact raids for example are literally 1 room 1 boss. If raids were bigger and contained multiple bosses. something akin to alliance raids you could then create scenarios where boss Job X is weak in bosses A and D. but stronger in bosses B and E. and fairly middle of the road in boss C. Job Y by contrast may be strong against bosses A and C but we weaker against bosses B and D, middle of the road for boss E.

Well designed content would create so much opportunity. in a way you could liken it to an FPS. a well designed map has areas that favour differing builds. open areas of the map likely favour sniper rifles, enclosed areas may favour shotguns or smgs. but a player cannot carry every type of weapon in there loadout at the same time. so naturally in some areas of the map they will have the upper hand. in others they will be at a disadvantage. this is what makes it fun and interesting.

ffxiv content is currently 1 big room 1 big boss. and thats one of its big problems. fixing that would be a massive first step towards fixing everything else

I also raid in WoW

I dont think that the "1 room 1 boss" policy is worse than the "open area raid"

it's just about expanding jobs identity/complexity

[Jeeqbit]

IMO much of this also stems from encounter design and the fact raids for example are literally 1 room 1 boss. If raids were bigger and contained multiple bosses. something akin to alliance raids you could then create scenarios where boss Job X is weak in bosses A and D. but stronger in bosses B and E. and fairly middle of the road in boss C. Job Y by contrast may be strong against bosses A and C but we weaker against bosses B and D, middle of the road for boss E.

That's a good idea. It's true that it is usually just 1 boss. They have split them up sometimes (like O12), but it's rare overall.

I assume it's a Final Fantasy thing. FF games are typically about that 1 small party vs 1 villain, whereas other games may be content with "50 players fighting a war" and be able to make as many villains as they want.

So if they split it up they have to move away from that more often and say that it's not 1 villain. Still, they have usually managed to make an add phase in most fights that they could use better in some of the ways you mentioned, such as when they bring other ascians back in Hades.

[Mikey_R]

Well designed content would create so much opportunity. in a way you could liken it to an FPS. a well designed map has areas that favour differing builds. open areas of the map likely favour sniper rifles, enclosed areas may favour shotguns or smgs. but a player cannot carry every type of weapon in there loadout at the same time. so naturally in some areas of the map they will have the upper hand. in others they will be at a disadvantage. this is what makes it fun and interesting.

The part here that doesn't match up is choice. in FPS, you have a set loadout, you know where in a map your strong points are, so you gravitate towards those areas, you might have to go through an undesirable area, but that might be a risk you have to take to give yourself a better advantage later on.

If you had a raid with 4 bosses, you don't get to choose which one you fight or not fight, you have to fight them all, you are forced into that encounter with a less than desirable choice. Rather than you calculating the risk, and making the choice based on several factors, you have been forced into it. It is the choice that makes it interesting.

[Dzian]

The part here that doesn't match up is choice. in FPS, you have a set loadout, you know where in a map your strong points are, so you gravitate towards those areas, you might have to go through an undesirable area, but that might be a risk you have to take to give yourself a better advantage later on.

that depends on the map and the objective i guess. are you going to never cpature that cp or flag and help your team win because you have to navigate a section of a map thats less favorable to you?.

another example could be a race track. 3 cars 1 has the best acceleration. 1 has the best top speed. 1 has the best handling. you'll never make it to the finish line just staying on the part of the track where your car has the advantage over the others.. a well designed track will have sections where all 3 of those cars are superior.

[Mikey_R]

that depends on the map and the objective i guess. are you going to never cpature that cp or flag and help your team win because you have to navigate a section of a map thats less favorable to you?.

another example could be a race track. 3 cars 1 has the best acceleration. 1 has the best top speed. 1 has the best handling. you'll never make it to the finish line just staying on the part of the track where your car has the advantage over the others.. a well designed track will have sections where all 3 of those cars are superior.

If you know the map and goal, you swap your loadout before you go in to give yourself a better advantage. If you cannot change after finding out the map and objective, you alter your strategy to make the best use of the tools you have. In both cases, you adapt to the situation.

FFXIV would be the first one, you know what to expect (once you know what to expect, you can plan for it), so you change your party to best suit the situation.

As for the cars, no track is perfect, so you will alter some aspects of the car to better suit the track, this is despite the track having aspects that better suit one car over another. This is, again, a case of, choosing the best party for the job.

And let's be clear here, it isn't even a simple case of job X is physical and job Y is magical, Paladin, Dark Knight, Ninja and others do have both types of damage.

I will reiterate again, knowing the map, the track etc. allows you to adapt your loadout, your car etc. to better suit this map/track. You choose how you want to tackle that obstacle. FFXIV, you would have no choice. Boss 1 and 2 are Physical and Boss 3 and 4 are Magical. If it were to all even out in the end, why bother? You haven't made anything interesting except reducing the damage from some people arbitrarily. So why try and balance around it.