Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

[AvoSturmfaust]

So, I suppose you also queue for EX and Savage via DF and complete it within a reasonable amount of time in the day with whomever you're matched with?

If EU/NA would do it like JP, i really would do it, i have no issue with it if the kill takes 10min or 2h, kill is kill, better then standing in limsa RPing

[Erzaa]

If EU/NA would do it like JP, i really would do it, i have no issue with it if the kill takes 10min or 2h, kill is kill, better then standing in limsa RPing

Yea, but it doesn't work that way in EU/NA. And it doesn't work that way because it requires a good amount of coordination and time investment. If the content forces a player to have to allocate significant amount of time into homework and perfect coordination with other players with no mistakes (and frequently the use of tools that aren't part of the game itself), it can't be possibly be considered casual content.

The fact Japan has a different culture has no bearing on the conversation.

[AvoSturmfaust]

Yea, but it doesn't work that way in EU/NA. And it doesn't work that way because it requires a good amount of coordination and time investment. If the content forces a player to have to allocate significant amount of time into homework and perfect coordination with other players with no mistakes (and frequently the use of tools that aren't part of the game itself), it can't be possibly be considered casual content.

The fact Japan has a different culture has no bearing on the conversation.

I say only one thing, and the whole thing was more likeley to say it doesnt matter where you do your content if PF or DF thats not the point of being hardcore or not, i can do a dungeon in PF so its not hardcore, that was the point i wanted to prove but one thing :
People are always talking about savage needs perfect coordination etc no, thats actually not even true, savage requires one thing YOU need to know YOUR positionals and whats YOUR mechanic to do, YOU DONT NEED coordination with other players because if YOU do your job and the other one does his job the coordination will happen automatic without thinking about it, so no you dont need perfect coordination you only need to know what YOU have to do

but thats a different thing, i just wanted to point that out

[Erzaa]

I say only one thing, and the whole thing was more likeley to say it doesnt matter where you do your content if PF or DF thats not the point of being hardcore or not, i can do a dungeon in PF so its not hardcore, that was the point i wanted to prove but one thing :
People are always talking about savage needs perfect coordination etc no, thats actually not even true, savage requires one thing YOU need to know YOUR positionals and whats YOUR mechanic to do, YOU DONT NEED coordination with other players because if YOU do your job and the other one does his job the coordination will happen automatic without thinking about it, so no you dont need perfect coordination you only need to know what YOU have to do

but thats a different thing, i just wanted to point that out

I mean... you're just arguing semantics now.

Coordination: the organization of the different elements of a complex body or activity so as to enable them to work together effectively

If you know what you need to do, but someone else doesn't know what they need to do, or vice versa, will you still clear the content?

I've seen it frequently brought up by raiders in these forums that EX can be cleared in a few hours to a day in PF even with alot of mistakes, so maybe classifying it midcore is fine with me, it's definitely not casual.

The rest of them require discords, PFs or statics, planning a schedule throughout the week to prog, then for reclears etc. That's not a casual playstyle no matter how you choose to frame it.

[AvoSturmfaust]

I mean... you're just arguing semantics now.

Coordination: the organization of the different elements of a complex body or activity so as to enable them to work together effectively

If you know what you need to do, but someone else doesn't know what they need to do, or vice versa, will you still clear the content?

I've seen it frequently brought up by raiders in these forums that EX can be cleared in a few hours to a day in PF even with alot of mistakes, so maybe classifying it midcore is fine with me, it's definitely not casual.

The rest of them require discords, PFs or statics, planning a schedule throughout the week to prog, then for reclears etc. That's not a casual playstyle no matter how you choose to frame it.

Like i said my point was not to classifying any content, my point only was to not classify content based on if you use DF or PF because in BOTH cases can happen the SAME shit, like your example in PF even with the have already cleared restriction people can join which still doesnt know what to do really, you know? im not saying savage is no hardcore content, i just wanted to say DF or PF doesnt classifying anything

[Erzaa]

Like i said my point was not to classifying any content, my point only was to not classify content based on if you use DF or PF because in BOTH cases can happen the SAME shit, like your example in PF even with the have already cleared restriction people can join which still doesnt know what to do really, you know? im not saying savage is no hardcore content, i just wanted to say DF or PF doesnt classifying anything

But the posters point was clear in its intention. You can classify something as hardcore or casual based on the kind of planning and preparation and time investment that's required.

Clicking a button in DF, being matched with whomever and clearing in less than hour, is a casual activity. You login, you do your roulettes one at a time, done in less than three hours and you're done. Mistakes from other players rarely matter, you'll almost never get flamed, because it's not meant to be treated as a serious game mode.

If you have to go into the PF, set up, wait to fill, figure out who knows what, can this be done with the group etc. etc. it's not a casual game mode.

The poster's point was that, not classifying PF vs DF, it was classifying how much work the two different styles of gameplay require.

[Gurgeh]

But the posters point was clear in its intention. You can classify something as hardcore or casual based on the kind of planning and preparation and time investment that's required.

Clicking a button in DF, being matched with whomever and clearing in less than hour, is a casual activity. You login, you do your roulettes one at a time, done in less than three hours and you're done. Mistakes from other players rarely matter, you'll almost never get flamed, because it's not meant to be treated as a serious game mode.

If you have to go into the PF, set up, wait to fill, figure out who knows what, can this be done with the group etc. etc. it's not a casual game mode.

The poster's point was that, not classifying PF vs DF, it was classifying how much work the two different styles of gameplay require.

And this is my point. CS3 needs to LEAD BY EXAMPLE.
The way to do that is tear up the game schedule.
Delay Ex release until 2 weeks after MSQ.
Give 2 Weeks with nothing new but the Ex's. (No savage)
Now you create an expectation that it is OK to spend 2 weeks progging them to clear.
And now the slower progress you will make in PFs that don't require guide familiarity (allowing it to be casual), and guarantees of performance, become a better understood expectation.
And now you will get 'casual' PFs, that are happy to prog together, and accept that today they are paying it forward and helping people with P1, rather than progging P2 consistently as they had hoped.
But the cause of when you stop tolerating that, and become more selfish about your own prog, is when you feel you have to clear by tomorrow if not even today!
And who knows DF/RaudF might start to be used.

Chaotic was most fun for me when we were queuing and refilling it from DF on day 0. (That would never have worked too clear phase 2 though. People know mechanics, easy, don't know mechanics, literally futile, not even prog is achievable (good luck explaining, better impatience and no common language. Oh yeah "perfect midcore")

Extreemes can be casual. CB3 needs to show leadership.

We have another problem though. You do need to communicate in Chat if you do not know the fight. That is where JP has an advantage.
In EU, and NA you don't get as many people who ask speak the same language. The best is probably E, but that is also where you get people who can't recruit enough Via their DFJ and speak only a little, or dont speak any of DEFJ, and so now you make no headway with an Enum they don't understand.

That is when casual Extreme blind progs, can become 'futile'.
(Maybe casual Extreeme isn't possible. But I'm not convinced.)