Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

[Kaurhz]

So erm... I dread to ask, but what would, in your opinion, add "longevity" to normal raids?

Well for starters the gear not being near enough immediately invalidated by crafted gear would be a pretty good start. Why am I going to do a Normal Mode raid more than once if crafted is of the same Item Level and substantially easier to obtain? The gear expense is roulette Gil. For me personally I can fully outfit a class before I've even finished doing a weekly reclear, so why would I bother? Now, if normal raid gear was +10 of it (so equivalent to non-augment Tomestone), then the incentive to actually rerun it would be there. Same thing with Alliance Raid gear, that should be equivalent to actual raid and augmented tomestone.

[Gurgeh]

Well for starters the gear not being near enough immediately invalidated by crafted gear would be a pretty good start. Why am I going to do a Normal Mode raid more than once if crafted is of the same Item Level and substantially easier to obtain? The gear expense is roulette Gil. For me personally I can fully outfit a class before I've even finished doing a weekly reclear, so why would I bother? Now, if normal raid gear was +10 of it (so equivalent to non-augment Tomestone), then the incentive to actually rerun it would be there. Same thing with Alliance Raid gear, that should be equivalent to actual raid and augmented tomestone.

Agreed,
There are 1,000 awesome things that you could give crafters to do that would still sell like hotcakes.
In fact no infinite!
Why do they have to 'tie' craftining into the battle content gear.
Because the crafting really is essential to savage at the end of the day.
Heck they could allow crafters to craft gear upgrade materials that allow dieing of gear.
There are even other crafted upgrade materials you could let crafters make that would mean crafting and scalpers are no longer an obstace to gearing, but rather the 'ulimate' requirement to gearing.
Give the crafters something that is the best and the essense of the the current expansion.
There are other options I haven't imagined, but the opportunities are endless.
I ran the normal loads. (I couldn't afford crafted gear and all the melds to make it worthwhile.)
This is software, nothing is set in stone, things can change.
You open up the path to higher end content, and just 'enjoying' crafting at your own pace.

[Kaurhz]

Agreed,
There are 1,000 awesome things that you could give crafters to do that would still sell like hotcakes.
In fact no infinite!
Why do they have to 'tie' craftining into the battle content gear.
Because the crafting really is essential to savage at the end of the day.
Heck they could allow crafters to craft gear upgrade materials that allow dieing of gear.
There are even other crafted upgrade materials you could let crafters make that would mean crafting and scalpers are an obstace to gearing, but rather the 'ulimate' requirement to gearing.
Give the crafters something that is the best and the essense of the the current expansion.
There are other options I haven't imagined, but the opportunities are endless.
I ran the normal loads. (I couldn't afford crafted gear and all the melds to make it worthwhile.)
This is software, nothing is set in stone, things can change.
You open up the path to higher end content, and just 'enjoying' crafting at your own pace.

Tying crafted in with battle is healthy and I 100% think it's good, and I think it should be tied in more, like the old days where you had to craft items for your relic. Or heaven forbid actually communicate with other people if you needed another method to obtain it.

I just in general find it a really dumb idea that you have a weekly gated gearing method that is released at the same time as crafted, which is substantially easier to obtain, and isn't locked behind any form of weekly time gate. It used to matter when being a crafter was actually a demanding way to play the game, and not something you could just do at a whim. Why am I going to bother doing Normal outside of the 1-time completion when there's already an ungated handout?

[Evergrey]

Well for starters the gear not being near enough immediately invalidated by crafted gear would be a pretty good start. Why am I going to do a Normal Mode raid more than once if crafted is of the same Item Level and substantially easier to obtain? The gear expense is roulette Gil. For me personally I can fully outfit a class before I've even finished doing a weekly reclear, so why would I bother? Now, if normal raid gear was +10 of it (so equivalent to non-augment Tomestone), then the incentive to actually rerun it would be there. Same thing with Alliance Raid gear, that should be equivalent to actual raid and augmented tomestone.

Personally I don't buy crafted gear because I see no reason as to why I need BiS/high end gear when I am not planning on raiding. It's literally not needed for non-raiders.
I play the normal raids for the gear because I don't have to waste gil on it and I think it's more fun to play than simply craft/buy something from a menu and then have nothing to do strive for/keep me occupied, again.

Getting crafted gear designed for entry-raid levels and not raid is like buying a high spec PC to play 10 year old games.
You might find personal satisfaction of having "great" gear but it's not anywhere needed for the non-raiding content.

[Kaurhz]

Personally I don't buy crafted gear because I see no reason as to why I need BiS/high end gear when I am not planning on raiding. It's literally not needed for non-raiders.
I play the normal raids for the gear because I don't have to waste gil on it and I think it's more fun to play than simply craft/buy something from a menu and then have nothing to do strive for/keep me occupied, again.

Getting crafted gear designed for entry-raid levels and not raid is like buying a high spec PC to play 10 year old games.
You might find personal satisfaction of having "great" gear but it's not anywhere needed for the non-raiding content.

The way I see it is character progression is pretty intrinsic regardless of whether you do high-end raiding or not, and gear is one of the key defining factors of this. The normal gear is also as much for casual players doing gearing catch-up as to what it is for high-end raiders that want to raid day 1, the only difference being the latter is generally more lucrative than the former due to the urgency. Some people might grind Normal Mode for it, and that's fine, but when you have a direct comparison like crafted placed up against a weekly gated gearing, then the design choice just strikes me as bizarre, as irrespective of content deficit, people are typically going to go with convenience factor or factor of least resistance.

many, many things in this game go much quicker if you have gear beyond what the minimum asks of you. So yes, you can say it isn't necessary all you like, but it absolutely is practical beyond just "Man I feel good".

[Evergrey]

The way I see it is character progression is pretty intrinsic regardless of whether you do high-end raiding or not, and gear is one of the key defining factors of this. The normal gear is also as much for casual players doing gearing catch-up as to what it is for high-end raiders that want to raid day 1, the only difference being the latter is generally more lucrative than the former due to the urgency. Some people might grind Normal Mode for it, and that's fine, but when you have a direct comparison like crafted placed up against a weekly gated gearing, then the design choice just strikes me as bizarre, as irrespective of content deficit, people are typically going to go with convenience factor or factor of least resistance.

many, many things in this game go much quicker if you have gear beyond what the minimum asks of you. So yes, you can say it isn't necessary all you like, but it absolutely is practical beyond just "Man I feel good".

But it is when people to go for the "convenience factor or factor of least resistance" that they make a direct decision to choose not to partake in content the game provides.
So it really baffles me when people make a choice and then complain that "there's nothing to do" when they chose to avoid doing it.
It's like saying if you went to a buffé and only picked the fried chicken, then complained how there wasn't anything else to choose from.
Taste in things are personal and not everyone likes everything. But complaining when choosing to limit oneself just feels odd to me.
Just accept that you do what you want to and don't put blame on others that they "can enjoy" more stuff than what you do.

I know people don't like it when others tell them to "play something else".
But honestly it's not a bad suggestion.
Instead of clinging on to a game that just makes one complain over the lack of things to do, why not take a break for a month or so and try enjoy something else meanwhile.
I'm only back here because I wanted to buy a mount from Chaotic. I've already canceled the sub and don't plan on actively play until maybe end of expansion to catch up before the next one.
And to people saying that they would've quit if it wasn't because they had a house.
Wouldn't it be more up-sides to just pay the sub while doing something else?
Than paying a sub and complain that there's nothing to do and that the state of the game is downright bad right now?

[Kaurhz]

But it is when people to go for the "convenience factor or factor of least resistance" that they make a direct decision to choose not to partake in content the game provides.
So it really baffles me when people make a choice and then complain that "there's nothing to do" when they chose to avoid doing it.
It's like saying if you went to a buffé and only picked the fried chicken, then complained how there wasn't anything else to choose from.
Taste in things are personal and not everyone likes everything. But complaining when choosing to limit oneself just feels odd to me.

Path to higher resistance is not necessarily an appropriate way of consuming content either. It's not really about limiting oneself, but having a good enough reason to actually partake in that content more than once. It's useless that one should need to partake in needlessly elongated methods of presenting or doing content, just for the sake of giving them something to do. You would have a point if I refused to engage in Normal Mode in any capacity, but I do not, there is simply no reason to do it due to fairly bad design.

Playing something else has never been a bad suggestion by any stretch of the imagination, but ultimately people are trying to present ideas to make the game better. At this point it would not be "Take a break for a month", but "Take a break for several months", and regardless of whether I take a break, that issue will still be there time and time again. So personally, I will continue to play due to friends, and I will continue to make complaints about the game where I feel the need to do so. Whilst also already spending a significant amount of time playing other games.

[Evergrey]

Path to higher resistance is not necessarily an appropriate way of consuming content either. It's not really about limiting oneself, but having a good enough reason to actually partake in that content more than once. It's useless that one should need to partake in needlessly elongated methods of presenting or doing content, just for the sake of giving them something to do.

Well, other than that they might think that the content they are doing is fun?
Not everyone finds enjoyment grinding the same stuff over and over.
But to some maybe the 10 minute runs now and then is all they need to have a good time.

Playing something else has never been a bad suggestion by any stretch of the imagination, but ultimately people are trying to present ideas to make the game better. At this point it would not be "Take a break for a month", but "Take a break for several months", and regardless of whether I take a break, that issue will still be there time and time again.

But think about it, isn't this thread about maybe it's time for a "casual strike"?
And what's a strike if not people stop playing for longer periods of times?
The problems might still remain. Or it could give the sign that people are unhappy and more and more just stop playing and something has to be done.
That people find other games more enjoyable and worth their time.

[Kaurhz]

Well, other than that they might think that the content they are doing is fun?
Not everyone finds enjoyment grinding the same stuff over and over.
But to some maybe the 10 minute runs now and then is all they need to have a good time.



But think about it, isn't this thread about maybe it's time for a "casual strike"?
And what's a strike if not people stop playing for longer periods of times?
The problems might still remain. Or it could give the sign that people are unhappy and more and more just stop playing and something has to be done.
That people find other games more enjoyable and worth their time.

Maybe they do. I am not arguing against how one might find the game fun, just presenting alternative ideas as to what might help increase the replayability and longevity of the normal content.

Trust me the developers already know the problems are happening, and whether or not they are doing something about it is an entirely different matter. They know about the problems when their active subscribers drop continually and continually each patch. Players can see it visibly in-game even. Equally they already know full well of the issues when they continually make subtle comments like "Why are your friends not playing". This is why a strike will never really amount to much.