Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

[LateNightSuki]

I feel if there were a way to do that they would have done so already. I know that (from what I've heard at least) we are currently experiencing a bit of a content drought, but there IS casual content coming, and quite a bit at that. I know it's frustrating that it's not immediately available, but it is coming. I do hope SE pick up the ball again and are able to have better content releases, more content per patch and more frequent, as much as it's wishful thinking atp lmao.

[ovIm]

Thanks, I do appreciate something that is somewhat a source (I'm very much interested in the statistics). As you said, it's not a reliable number, how many people have attempted, have kept trying, etc. Also not counting private lodestones. I myself have not cleared a final tier of a raid since Coil but have cleared the other fights, and still thoroughly enjoy raiding, as I am sure there's many a number of other people out there like me (vouching for pretty much my entire friend group and people I've spoken to as well as raided with.)

In regards to the private lodestones - that goes both ways. It would be unfair to say that only one group of people puts their lodestone on private. As with all statistics, it does help giving it a good ballpark. Consider that people not interested in the combat encounters may not have played M4N and as such are not eligible to enter savage. So, I think its fair to say that somewhere between 20-30% of players do Savage. Which is a good number of people, mind you, and I am not the one advocating for the removal of Raid Instances.

Either way, these numbers aren't concerning SE enough to change the main appeal of the game and the main content the produce for the game.

That however is not quite right though, I'm afraid - the situation is bad enough that Yoshi-P has openly asked people not to retire from FFXIV. The main appeal of this game has not always been raids, CS3 struggle with a content pipeline layout that satisfies all of their customer bases.

Changing the appeal of the game is not what should asked - part of this thread is about is that the timeline of how content is supposed to be released is baffling to some players. It would be better to release different styles of combat content like Field Operations or a Deep Dungeon earlier in an expansion as that gives players battle content to do that is a change from "room with boss".

[Erzaa]

I didn't assume anything. The Dark Souls analogy is there so you understand why people like raiding and that it has nothing to do with "flexing online". This isn't me forcing you to play content you don't like, you're getting upset over nothing.

No, the Dark Souls analogy was brought up, because it's notorious for being harder than most games, and comes with the usual "git gud" mentality. That's why it was brought up. And again, I don't care. I don't play games to "git gud". I improve at a game passively, over time, by playing it, for as long as I find it entertaining. I've no interest in online bravado and flexing. If people enjoy Dark Souls, they can play Dark Souls, if people enjoy hardcore raiding, they can do hardcore raiding.

Also, flip this over. I love raiding content, and I exhaust it pretty fast because there's so little of it. It's not fair for me to suddenly demand they stop adding content for housing so we can have more savage content, Chaotic Raids was added to no detriment of the way they release content.

So little of it? Twelve Savages per expansion, Eight Extremes per expansion, Ultimates, of which Endwalker has two, and Dawntrail already has one and it's only patch 7.1 (we're likely to get another), and a Chaotic Alliance Raid. There's nothing little about the amount of high-end raids.

I appreciate that you enjoy high-end raiding, but you already got two extremes, one ultimate, four savages. Without SE providing more resources to the team to add more content overall (it would be great if they did!), would it have really hurt you, if they released the next casual piece of content before releasing Chaotic? Who's really being unfair here?

All I've had since finishing DT MSQ is one dungeon, and time gated beast tribes. They couldn't even release both the crafting and combat role quest epilogue at the same time.

[Volgia]

No, the Dark Souls analogy was brought up, because it's notorious for being harder than most games, and comes with the usual "git gud" mentality. That's why it was brought up. And again, I don't care. I don't play games to "git gud". I improve at a game passively, over time, by playing it, for as long as I find it entertaining. I've no interest in online bravado and flexing. If people enjoy Dark Souls, they can play Dark Souls, if people enjoy hardcore raiding, they can do hardcore raiding.


So little of it? Twelve Savages per expansion, Eight Extremes per expansion, Ultimates, of which Endwalker has two, and Dawntrail already has one and it's only patch 7.1 (we're likely to get another), and a Chaotic Alliance Raid. There's nothing little about the amount of high-end raids.

I appreciate that you enjoy high-end raiding, but you already got two extremes, one ultimate, four savages. Without SE providing more resources to the team to add more content overall (it would be great if they did!), would it have really hurt you, if they released the next casual piece of content before releasing Chaotic? Who's really being unfair here?

All I've had since finishing DT MSQ is one dungeon, and time gated beast tribes. They couldn't even release both the crafting and combat role quest epilogue at the same time.

Sorry but for every piece of content, except for Ultimate and recently Chaotic, you have a NORMAL regular easy version. We have "Three extremes already", but you have three normal DT trials. We have "12 savages", but you have 12 normal raids. Even Criterion and it's savage counterpart has this. So hardcore people only get 1 to 2 pieces of content exclusively for them an EXPANSION.

Where as the easy content you will get 4 more dungeons, and for the non combat stuff you get 3 different tribe quests, custom deliveries, a new bozja like zone, cosmic exploration, PVP, crafting/gathering updates and rewards. The content is still 80/20 between raiders and non raiders.

[Kaurhz]

Sorry but for every piece of content, except for Ultimate and recently Chaotic, you have a NORMAL regular easy version. We have "Three extremes already", but you have three normal DT trials. We have "12 savages", but you have 12 normal raids. Even Criterion and it's savage counterpart has this. So hardcore people only get 1 to 2 pieces of content exclusively for them an EXPANSION.

Where as the easy content you will get 4 more dungeons, and for the non combat stuff you get 3 different tribe quests, custom deliveries, a new bozja like zone, cosmic exploration, PVP, crafting/gathering updates and rewards. The content is till 80/20 between raiders and non raiders.

The problem is, is that the replay value between both pieces of content are not nearly the same. Like, you can't really sit there with a straight face for example and say Normal mode MSQ trials offer the same replay value and longevity as an Extreme, which has many people replaying that a great deal of times times for a mount, or more if they are unlucky and don't want to wait 4 months. Same thing with Normal raids, the gear is invalidated the same second it releases. Why do you have weekly gated normal mode gear with equivalent item level to crafted DoW/M gear which is significantly easier to obtain. Same thing with Alliance Raid and augmented crafted.

You can say they get a few pieces of content 'exclusive' to them, but really that's not even the point. The replay and longevity value of the overlapping content is significantly different. In the same vein that releasing casual content like large-scale raids benefits a lot more players than just casual folk. It still has several pieces of content behind it which are pretty good incentive to anyone seeking a challenge.

It's 50-50, in the grand scheme of things, and ultimately they have a bad content pipeline. Now, I don't know exactly whether you're defending that pipeline or just replying to OP, but it's absolutely absurd for both casual players and raiders alike.

[Erzaa]

Sorry but for every piece of content, except for Ultimate and recently Chaotic, you have a NORMAL regular easy version. We have "Three extremes already", but you have three normal DT trials. We have "12 savages", but you have 12 normal raids. Even Criterion and it's savage counterpart has this. So hardcore people only get 1 to 2 pieces of content exclusively for them an EXPANSION.

Where as the easy content you will get 4 more dungeons, and for the non combat stuff you get 3 different tribe quests, custom deliveries, a new bozja like zone, cosmic exploration, PVP, crafting/gathering updates and rewards. The content is still 80/20 between raiders and non raiders.

Excuse me? May I ask how often you repeat the Normal mode Trials and Dungeon and for what reason? Outside of Roulette, that is. And let's assume you get them frequently enough while leveling all jobs to 100, once you've maxed out all your jobs, what do you do then? And what rewards do you receive from repeating said content?

Alas, we repeat the single Alliance Raid once a week, and that's only if we even care to get a full gear set, maybe... Likely going to quit after rolling 3 on the minion for the upteenth time?

Now let's consider you're a hardcore raider, I'll assume you raid with a static or PF? There's a certain amount of repetition you need to perform in order to clear and then continue on to receive all rewards? Perhaps you're in it for the mount at the end? Repeat until you get lucky or collect enough tomes to buy the EX mount? Repeat again until everyone in your group has received all the rewards?

It's not even a close equivalency and you know that. We do a Normal Trial and Dungeon once to progress the MSQ and then it's just fodder for the DF. It's not something anyone works toward over a period of time. We repeat the Alliance Raid once a week for maybe two to three times? Five if you get really unlucky with your gear drop? And then what? Sit around and twiddle our thumbs?

[Connor]

snip

I think it’s worth mentioning too; (almost) nobody ever do these normal contents ‘because it’s fun’. If anything the most people treat expert roulette or alliance raids like a burden they have to suffer through and not as genuine ‘content’ lol.

But don’t worry, there’s allied tribe quests. Whatever they’re called now lol. They’re real fun lol… /s

[NamiRocket]

I think it’s worth mentioning too; (almost) nobody ever do these normal contents ‘because it’s fun’? If anything the most people treat expert roulette or alliance raids like a burden they have to suffer through and not as genuine ‘content’ lol.

But don’t worry, there’s allied tribe quests. They’re real fun lol… /s

This bears repeating.

Y'all are straight up playing the wrong game and genre.

[Supersnow845]

This bears repeating.

I mean 14 can’t even figure out what genre it wants to be

You can barely play this as an MMO but nor can you really play this as a standalone FF title in the series

It’s like a second life sim with a side of PVM

[Connor]

This bears repeating.

If expecting the game’s content to be satisfying/fun at any level somehow means I ‘don’t belong in an MMO’, then yeah I don’t want to belong in an MMO lol.

least I’m finally in the demographic they're shooting for