Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

[Erzaa]

I didn't say that, but you do you, and there is a middle ground is there not? Like I said, BLU/Beastmaster, Deep/Variant Dungeons, Normal Raids, whatever.

Done and dusted, for some time now. Back to Deep Dungeons solo will be my focus after I max out my jobs. So yea, been there done that. I've done every piece of casual content the game has.

Savage and everything in between can be as piss easy as you want it to be if you take the time to learn, so yes, I will double down on "People don't like to learn" really saying it all. People don't have the patience to sit down and learn anymore, just like the whole DS debacle of people wanting an easy mode, those games are only as hard as you make them out to be.

Don't play Dark Souls, don't care about Dark Souls. I play games to have fun and be entertained and unwind, not to flex online about how good I am at a game. I put effort into things I like and enjoy, if I have to put effort into things I don't enjoy, I expect a paycheck. If you like doing that, more power to you, stop telling me to enjoy things I know I don't enjoy. I also don't enjoy watching paint dry, but I don't judge people who might.

So again, what content DO you want? You don't like the combat, so what, you want something like island sanctuary to just sit around in all day? I honestly do not get why you are playing an MMO at that point, especially if you don't like the combat as it is key to the game, current class identity issues aside.

I didn't say I don't like combat, I said I find FF14's combat to be just alright. It's not exactly the pinnacle of fun combat is it? Memorise, press rotation, stand and wait for some mechanic to finish. And I play MMOs because I like the fantasy of another living world, why do you get to decide who gets to play MMOs and why? And Island Sanctuary? Also done... meh!

I'm not trying to shove Savage/EX/whatever down people's throats, just encouraging. But also I am honest to god just sick of hearing people whine about content that is there that they are simply choosing not to do, almost always due to laziness. You make the content as fun as you want it to be.

You don't encourage when you tell people who already explained why they don't enjoy that content, that they should do that content and shut up and like it, because they're rightfully complaining there's nothing left for them to do. Encourage someone who's wondering if they should give it a try instead.

OK, I guess I'm just lazy, got it.

[LateNightSuki]

Done and dusted, for some time now. Back to Deep Dungeons solo will be my focus after I max out my jobs. So yea, been there done that. I've done every piece of casual content the game has.


Don't play Dark Souls, don't care about Dark Souls. I play games to have fun and be entertained and unwind, not to flex online about how good I am at a game. I put effort into things I like and enjoy, if I have to put effort into things I don't enjoy, I expect a paycheck. If you like doing that, more power to you, stop telling me to enjoy things I know I don't enjoy. I also don't enjoy watching paint dry, but I don't judge people who might.


I didn't say I don't like combat, I said I find FF14's combat to be just alright. It's not exactly the pinnacle of fun combat is it? Memorise, press rotation, stand and wait for some mechanic to finish. And I play MMOs because I like the fantasy of another living world, why do you get to decide who gets to play MMOs and why? And Island Sanctuary? Also done... meh!


You don't encourage when you tell people who already explained why they don't enjoy that content, that they should do that content and shut up and like it, because they're rightfully complaining there's nothing left for them to do. Encourage someone who's wondering if they should give it a try instead.

OK, I guess I'm just lazy, got it.

I didn't say shut up and like it LMFAO I said at least give it a try, or at least was trying to convey that point.

I'm solely annoyed at people stark raving about there not being enough casual content when that has never been the centred content of the game. It has always been about raiding/dungeons/extremes/whatever first. If you have done all the casual content you do realise you can unsub and come back when there's more? Instead of demanding a cut in hardcore content for more casual content, which you specifically might not be doing but there are people in this thread who are.

Focus on hardcore content, casual content suffers (despite the numerous casual activities coming up in the patches), focus on casual content, oops the endgame is gone, what then?

[Erzaa]

I didn't say shut up and like it LMFAO I said at least give it a try, or at least was trying to convey that point.

I have given it a try, that's how I know I don't like it. I don't need to repeat more of them to know I still won't like it. I tried the SB EX, I tried Savage, I tried a DT EX with some raider friends too and I didn't like it.

I'm solely annoyed at people stark raving about there not being enough casual content when that has never been the centred content of the game. It has always been about raiding/dungeons/extremes/whatever first. If you have done all the casual content you do realise you can unsub and come back when there's more? Instead of demanding a cut in hardcore content for more casual content, which you specifically might not be doing but there are people in this thread who are.

You might be annoyed, and I'll give you, you have the right to get annoyed at people trying to say remove the content from the game.

I don't want them to remove the content from the game. But there's definitely not enough casual content in the game, for the ratio of casual to hardcore players that exist in the game. And in that regard, we're completely right in complaining. And I can't unsub can I? I have an FC, submarines, houses and friends I socialise with, in the game. I'd still like to have more stuff to do, and not just chores like beast tribes and IS, actual fun activities. Why is that so hard for people to accept?

Focus on hardcore content, casual content suffers (despite the numerous casual activities coming up in the patches), focus on casual content, oops the endgame is gone, what then?

Focus on hardcore content, you lose subs, you can't focus on 20% of your player base and expect the other 80% to be happy about it. And casual content is going to be done by all of the player base regardless. The raiders have tons to do, they need to put resources back into the team to also give everyone else tons to do.

[LateNightSuki]

I have given it a try, that's how I know I don't like it. I don't need to repeat more of them to know I still won't like it. I tried the SB EX, I tried Savage, I tried a DT EX with some raider friends too and I didn't like it.


You might be annoyed, and I'll give you, you have the right to get annoyed at people trying to say remove the content from the game.

I don't want them to remove the content from the game. But there's definitely not enough casual content in the game, for the ratio of casual to hardcore players that exist in the game. And in that regard, we're completely right in complaining. And I can't unsub can I? I have an FC, submarines, houses and friends I socialise with, in the game. I'd still like to have more stuff to do, and not just chores like beast tribes and IS, actual fun activities. Why is that so hard for people to accept?


Focus on hardcore content, you lose subs, you can't focus on 20% of your player base and expect the other 80% to be happy about it. And casual content is going to be done by all of the player base regardless. The raiders have tons to do, they need to put resources back into the team to also give everyone else tons to do.

I would LOVE for there to be more casual "chore-ish" activities that are fun and I accept that the chores are that, chores, like weapon grinding or tomestones. However I don't think it should take precedence over hardcore/battle content being released. Do you have a source for the 20/80? Obviously I know the numbers are exaggerated to make a point, but I would like to see something that backs your point, because surely if that were the case they would have started making casual content the main appeal long ago.

[Erzaa]

I would LOVE for there to be more casual "chore-ish" activities that are fun and I accept that the chores are that, chores, like weapon grinding or tomestones. However I don't think it should take precedence over hardcore/battle content being released. Do you have a source for the 20/80? Obviously I know the numbers are exaggerated to make a point, but I would like to see something that backs your point, because surely if that were the case they would have started making casual content the main appeal long ago.

No, I don't have a source, like you said, hyperbole to explain the point.

[ovIm]

I would LOVE for there to be more casual "chore-ish" activities that are fun and I accept that the chores are that, chores, like weapon grinding or tomestones. However I don't think it should take precedence over hardcore/battle content being released. Do you have a source for the 20/80? Obviously I know the numbers are exaggerated to make a point, but I would like to see something that backs your point, because surely if that were the case they would have started making casual content the main appeal long ago.

These numbers usually come from Lucky Bancho. Lucky Bancho uses Lodestones publicly available achievements to gauge an estimate of the games population and their progress in the game. Unfortunately, I don't have a link for that at hand, its fairly well known resource.

According to the current Lucky Bancho, ~20-25% of players allowed to enter Savage (Character at level 100, have cleared Arcadion 4 Normal) have cleared the last floor. This has been, at least to my knowledge, fairly constant over the course of this games life. (That of course does not say how many people attempt at it, or how many people actually play the content, even if unsuccessfully)

ETA: looks like it has been answered above too, was Hyperbole. Will keep that post here up though.

[LateNightSuki]

These numbers usually come from Lucky Bancho. Lucky Bancho uses Lodestones publicly available achievements to gauge an estimate of the games population and their progress in the game. Unfortunately, I don't have a link for that at hand, its fairly well known resource.

According to the current Lucky Bancho, ~20-25% of players allowed to enter Savage (Character at level 100, have cleared Arcadion 4 Normal) have cleared the last floor. This has been, at least to my knowledge, fairly constant over the course of this games life. (That of course does not say how many people attempt at it, or how many people actually play the content, even if unsuccessfully)

ETA: looks like it has been answered above too, was Hyperbole. Will keep that post here up though.

Thanks, I do appreciate something that is somewhat a source (I'm very much interested in the statistics). As you said, it's not a reliable number, how many people have attempted, have kept trying, etc. Also not counting private lodestones. I myself have not cleared a final tier of a raid since Coil but have cleared the other fights, and still thoroughly enjoy raiding, as I am sure there's many a number of other people out there like me (vouching for pretty much my entire friend group and people I've spoken to as well as raided with.)

Either way, these numbers aren't concerning SE enough to change the main appeal of the game and the main content the produce for the game.

[ovIm]

Thanks, I do appreciate something that is somewhat a source (I'm very much interested in the statistics). As you said, it's not a reliable number, how many people have attempted, have kept trying, etc. Also not counting private lodestones. I myself have not cleared a final tier of a raid since Coil but have cleared the other fights, and still thoroughly enjoy raiding, as I am sure there's many a number of other people out there like me (vouching for pretty much my entire friend group and people I've spoken to as well as raided with.)

In regards to the private lodestones - that goes both ways. It would be unfair to say that only one group of people puts their lodestone on private. As with all statistics, it does help giving it a good ballpark. Consider that people not interested in the combat encounters may not have played M4N and as such are not eligible to enter savage. So, I think its fair to say that somewhere between 20-30% of players do Savage. Which is a good number of people, mind you, and I am not the one advocating for the removal of Raid Instances.

Either way, these numbers aren't concerning SE enough to change the main appeal of the game and the main content the produce for the game.

That however is not quite right though, I'm afraid - the situation is bad enough that Yoshi-P has openly asked people not to retire from FFXIV. The main appeal of this game has not always been raids, CS3 struggle with a content pipeline layout that satisfies all of their customer bases.

Changing the appeal of the game is not what should asked - part of this thread is about is that the timeline of how content is supposed to be released is baffling to some players. It would be better to release different styles of combat content like Field Operations or a Deep Dungeon earlier in an expansion as that gives players battle content to do that is a change from "room with boss".

[Kaurhz]

I would LOVE for there to be more casual "chore-ish" activities that are fun and I accept that the chores are that, chores, like weapon grinding or tomestones. However I don't think it should take precedence over hardcore/battle content being released. Do you have a source for the 20/80? Obviously I know the numbers are exaggerated to make a point, but I would like to see something that backs your point, because surely if that were the case they would have started making casual content the main appeal long ago.

No content should take precedent over the other, frankly. But the developers do not really make an effort to try and please both groups of players simultaneously. Instead they just yoyo between the two.

That being said if we look at publicly available achievement data according to XIVCollect, there are 237,890 characters with public achievements. Of those, 84% (200,634) have the achievement for Completing the Main Scenario Quest "Vows of Virtue, Deeds of Cruelty) 61% (145,532) has discovered every location at the southern front. 53% (128,202) have cleared Delubrum Reginae at least once. 42% (101,397) have discovered every location in Zadnor,. 39% (94,441) have cleared Dalriada at least once. Keep in mind this is only players with public achievement data, and this is probably the closest data you'll get for casual content unless Lucky Bancho reports on it.

Obviously the 20-80 is hypoerbole, and I do want to emphasis that I don't think either content should take precedence over the other. But the fact is that SE in the long-term actually gives both equal precedence.. But yes you would at least figure they would try and introduce this content sooner.

[LateNightSuki]

I feel if there were a way to do that they would have done so already. I know that (from what I've heard at least) we are currently experiencing a bit of a content drought, but there IS casual content coming, and quite a bit at that. I know it's frustrating that it's not immediately available, but it is coming. I do hope SE pick up the ball again and are able to have better content releases, more content per patch and more frequent, as much as it's wishful thinking atp lmao.