Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

[Mawlzy]

I don't understand this thread reading through it. You can literally choose to be a better player if you want to be and then you have more access to more content. There are thousands of player made resources for jobs and fights, there are people you can ask about anything almost on the fly in dedicated discord servers, you can gather people at your skill level to attempt harder content through a server or PF and practice whatever you want over and over until you clear. I don't understand why people are so adverse to improving their own performance in this game. Yes there are skillcaps but there are also people who are willing to give you an extra hand, extra callouts, whatever you need.

If the issue is unlockables you can.... just wait until the next expansion and go back to it? You can literally buy the CAR rewards on the MB right now, there are plenty of casual ways to make tons of gil. Social/RP events, crafting, gathering, GPosing, housing, maps, etc.

Guys there is content right here for you to do lol, pick up your controller or KB&M and just sit down and learn. If you don't have the time then I don't really know how you have the time for an MMO in the first place tbh.

Okay, but I get a bit puzzled by the abbreviations and terminology in PF.

For example, let's suppose I wanted to get into savage and set up a prog party for M1S. I think it's important I attempt I find a group with a comparable skill level. So what is the shorthand for:

Must have wiped in Worqor Zormor at least 20 times with Duty Support before clearing?

Any other info I should include that fully communicates my ineptitude so I hook up with like-skilled souls?

[LateNightSuki]

Okay, but I get a bit puzzled by the abbreviations and terminology in PF.

For example, let's suppose I wanted to get into savage and set up a prog party for M1S. I think it's important I attempt I find a group with a comparable skill level. So what is the shorthand for:

Must have wiped in Worqor Zormor at least 20 times with Duty Support before clearing?

Any other info I should include that fully communicates my ineptitude so I hook up with like-skilled souls?

Okay, so learn and memorize them. Like I more or less said, make the effort to learn.

Why are you overcomplicating it? You can literally say you haven't done the fight before, or that you're a beginner raider and there will be groups doing it blind or looking for newcomers who will pick you up.

[Mawlzy]

Okay, so learn and memorize them. Like I more or less said, make the effort to learn.

Why are you overcomplicating it? You can literally say you haven't done the fight before, or that you're a beginner raider and there will be groups doing it blind who will pick you up.

I was making a point through humor; swing and a miss apparently.

Suki, I suspect you are well-meaning and you have a nice name, but you're clearly coming from a hardcore perspective. To you (please correct me if I'm wrong), a significant motivation when playing a game is to get "better" at it. By which you mean being able to clear increasingly difficult PvE content.

I have suggested previously that the best FF14 player is the one who derives the most enjoyment from the game. For a "casual" player (who may play several hours a day), enjoyment has absolutely nothing to do with raiding. They either cannot make that transition, or find the idea of repeating the same fight over and over again to be completely tedious. This and similar threads have been provoked by the fact that the kind of content casuals enjoy is currently massively lacking.

If you take a vegan to a restaurant and they are staring gloomily at the menu, suggesting they'd really enjoy the beef wellington is a teeny bit tone deaf.

The situation has been made far worse since the CAR release by some hardcore raiders here and elsewhere conforming to the worst stereotypes of that community.

Raiders and casual players derive pleasure from FF14 in completely different ways. Both you and SE seem to be telling casual players that everything will be just fine if they'd embrace a playstyle that is completely foreign to them, thereby greatly compounding their frustration with the current state of the game and some of its players.

[LateNightSuki]

Well no, I have never been a hardcore raider, and I appreciate the compliment(?). Actually this is coming from a very midcore/casual raider. I have been playing this game since I was young/2.1/Coil. Through each expansion I looked up guides on how to better play my class, not even just to raid, so I could make dungeons go smoother as well. I improved my performance not only for myself, but because it's kind of just basic etiquette to do so, and not just press random buttons to do the lowest amount of damage and make dungeons take like 30 minutes. It also left me in a position to give advice to other players, so they could improve as well, even if it's as basic as don't use Cure 1, use Cure 2 if you have it unlocked and the reason why.

I actually haven't touched the new raids, my perspective is coming solely from my experience over the years of raiding I have done, which was Coil/Alex/Panda. I also work in housing, and I very much enjoy the social side of the game. But people are choosing to lock themselves out of available content which I can only assume is the lack of motivation to actually do better, and then complaining about it, which I find the idea of puzzling at the least. Is the main appeal of the endgame NOT raiding and extremes and the newly introduced CAR? Anybody can make the transition, if they actually make the effort lol.

You can raid casually and derive great enjoyment from it while also wiping over and over, and then eventually clearing, if you find the right group of people to do it with. I have wiped for countless hours and loved it from the numerous statics I've been in over the years, you just have to make the littlest bit of effort to find your people. Anecdotal, I know, but it is something I firmly believe in that you can do anything in this game if you find the right people to do it with.

Also sorry if my posts are wonky, I don't really use the forums as you can see from my (4) posts.

[Mawlzy]

snip.

It sounds like you respect those you play with. I try to too. Like you, I study guides for the rotations of the jobs I play with other players. I can confidently heal, tank, and dps up to about level 60 dungeons. I'm comfortable in dungeons up to 80 or so with MCH.

Unfortunately, I accept that in a new expansion I am likely going to be the weak link in any light party, hence I run the dungeons with NPCs who don't complain (except sometimes Y'shtola gives me the side eye when I'm tanking and flub my mits). Consequently, I tend to avoid on-patch content that can only be completed with other players. My performance in M1N, despite taking copious notes from a video guide, confirmed I should not inflict myself on others. And I'm absolutely fine with that.

My personal frustration has been compounded by the fact I enjoy PvP, and the 7.1 changes were... not well-received by those of us who play the mode a lot. So from my perspective, SE mucked up my favorite evergreen, repeatable content.

To answer your question: "Is the main appeal of the endgame NOT raiding and extremes and the newly introduced CAR?" For the majority of NA players, no, it is not. (I have a friend with six Island Sanctuaries who is at 94 in the MSQ.) I genuinely believe I'm incapable of clearing such endgame content without being a serious drain on the team, if at all, and attempting to do so doesn't interest me in the slightest.

[LateNightSuki]

Sorry, are normal raids not casual content? I think you need to have a little more faith in yourself, as do other casual (those with an aversion to endgame content) players. You are allowed to be new, especially to new content. Also, if I'm understanding correctly, you don't feel comfortable in dungeons above 80? I would appreciate if you would explain why if that's possible, although I will not press you of course.

You say despite taking copious notes from a video guide you struggled, failed and then gave up to, putting it bluntly. How many times did you actually try though? Nobody is expecting you to have a perfect run after a few rounds of watching a video or even after a few rounds of doing the fight for the first time. Theory is nothing without actually physically doing it a few times and getting used to the movement and the timing of mechanics, etc.

Your worries of being a drain on the team sounds like more of a personal issue, and while I sympathize as I have been there myself, at the end of the day this is a video game and none of us know each other and it's just really not that deep. While I may loathe someone in the moment for making the roulette taking longer than it needs to, I am more than likely not going to see them again and forget. Sometimes we think about ourselves a little too much, what we can do is ask for advice and criticism on what we can do better, which are what learning parties are for! And you will naturally find people who believe in you and encourage you, even if it's only a stranger in a PF for 1-2 hours.

Accepting that you are a weak link and a drain is nothing but a wall created by, well, what I can only assume is insecurity. But I promise I don't mean that in a harsh way.

[Mawlzy]

Sorry, are normal raids not casual content? I think you need to have a little more faith in yourself, as do other casual (those with an aversion to endgame content) players. You are allowed to be new, especially to new content. Also, if I'm understanding correctly, you don't feel comfortable in dungeons above 80? I would appreciate if you would explain why if that's possible, although I will not press you of course.

...

Your worries of being a drain on the team sounds like more of a personal issue, and while I sympathize as I have been there myself, at the end of the day this is a video game and none of us know each other and it's just really not that deep. While I may loathe someone in the moment for making the roulette taking longer than it needs to, I am more than likely not going to see them again and forget. Sometimes we think about ourselves a little too much, what we can do is ask for advice and criticism on what we can do better, which are what learning parties are for! And you will naturally find people who believe in you and encourage you, even if it's only a stranger in a PF for 1-2 hours.

Accepting that you are a weak link and a drain is nothing but a wall created by, well, what I can only assume is insecurity. But I promise I don't mean that in a harsh way.

Yes, normal raids are usually regarded as casual content, and I have no doubt I could be carried through M1-4N. If I did them repeatedly (like ~ 50 times) I might be able to get through all of them without dying, although I'd probably be doing less dps than the healers. But why would I? Remembering where to put my feet isn't interesting to me.

Insecurity? I don't think so. Professional poker players have been characterized as having "a self-confidence bordering on arrogance." It's a survival characteristic.

As to dungeons above about level 80, combination of things. The speed of AoEs gets faster, mechanics overlap. From a design point of view, I think boss tells are far more interesting than orange puddles, but I find many of them impossible to pick up even when I'm checking the cast bar so I know they're coming. Like the bosses hair is pointing in a direction to indicate the direction of a cleave? Simply can't pick it up, despite spending hours fiddling with settings. I just bung a Dorito on the healer and follow them around which isn't very interesting. Anything in which I have to remember a delayed AoE pattern I just can't do it. Around Troia and up I don't think I've completed a dungeon without dying. Which I know is part of the process, but it's an irritant to the competent members of the light party.

Now I'm quite old (I played Doom on release), so maybe that is part of it. Equally in (the admittedly much simpler content) of Frontline, I invariably get at least one of the positive stats on the front page, and often a couple. So the hands are working okay. Not so sure about the brain.

[IceEyes]

Anybody can make the transition, if they actually make the effort lol

This is something on the language of successful success.

Why you just cant accept not everyone enjoy fight format, like in modern FF14. This is just not fun. Do all by guides not fun, learn even fight from 0 with a lot of wipes not fun, body checks not fun, meta-gaming in MMO (like picto in FRU) not fun, strict selection in PF not fun. It might be fun with friends (if you're on the same wave, of course), but you could just as easily do anything and it would still be fun.

Yes, everyone can do that, but why u think people avoiding that?

Most of grind types in this game not fun. Most of crafters sit on macros application. That not fun. Most of raiders whom i know personally used any applications what up their QoL and that not fun.

I basically don’t understand the concept of a fight in which I can manage my class well, but this is only a ridiculous 10% of the success of the raid, because nothing depends on me except DPS and throwing debuffs / buffs into timing.

I'd prefer more fights where can easily сarry casuals, which is based on personal game my experience and not whether someone stayed on wrong place or not.

People don't like to learn\repeat anything, unless you are a special, rare "breed" of players.
This does not mean that casuals do not want to do anything and avoid any type of content, it only means that fight content that is more difficult then MSQ have very a high difficulty jump that casuals are not interested in.

[Erzaa]

Why you just cant accept not everyone enjoy fight format, like in modern FF14.

This does not mean that casuals do not want to do anything and avoid any type of content, it only means that content that is more difficult then MSQ have very a high difficulty jump that casuals are not interested in.

34 pages until someone could explain it succinctly. Thank you. Basically this.

[NamiRocket]

34 pages until someone could explain it succinctly. Thank you. Basically this.

Y'all are straight up playing the wrong game and genre.