Why do casual players seem entitled to cosmetic items added in game?

[Tyintheron]

“Clinging to old ways”

My brother in Christ it’s an MMO, do you understand what those three words stand for

It’s like walking into a pizza place and wondering why they only make pizza and declaring it’s because “they’ve always done it this way”

I definitely don't know what MMO stands for, you're right. I always just assumed it was games for Moms, just spelled wrong, but thanks to your post I've learned that was incorrect!

I mean, I think. You didn't really clarify.

But I do think there are at least a couple of steps in your analogy you're missing to make that an equivalent example.

For example: does this pizza place also make you share 7 slices of your 8 slice pizza with 7 random strangers who react angrily to you "doing it wrong" before taking a vote to kick you out of the place?

Does the pizza parlor require that I wear 8 seperate pieces of clothing and accessories of a minimum quality before I can step inside?

If I approach the pizza parlor with my wife for a date, will it tell me that I can eat the pizza alone OR with 7 strangers, but not JUST with my wife?

I think a pizza parlor set up to follow MMO requirements would probably only have a 1-star rating on Yelp, that's for sure.

...

...what were we talking about, again..?

Right. Yeah. So - yes. I think that encouraging the introduction of quality-of-life features is more important than going with "it's always been this way before." Bear in mind that I'll be prepared to accept that this is your genuine stance ONLY if you're still angrily holding a candle for 1.0's "anima" system, where you couldn't really play the game meaningfully any more once you ran out.

Which, if so - I mean, way to hold to your convictions, my friend!

But I'd like to think that maybe you can agree that some things that are "staples of the genre" can actually be bad, or un-fun, and - if not outright removed - alternatives can be offered for people who won't otherwise interact with those systems in their current forms anyway.

[Supersnow845]

I definitely don't know what MMO stands for, you're right. I always just assumed it was games for Moms, just spelled wrong, but thanks to your post I've learned that was incorrect!

I mean, I think. You didn't really clarify.

But I do think there are at least a couple of steps in your analogy you're missing to make that an equivalent example.

For example: does this pizza place also make you share 7 slices of your 8 slice pizza with 7 random strangers who react angrily to you "doing it wrong" before taking a vote to kick you out of the place?

Does the pizza parlor require that I wear 8 seperate pieces of clothing and accessories of a minimum quality before I can step inside?

If I approach the pizza parlor with my wife for a date, will it tell me that I can eat the pizza alone OR with 7 strangers, but not JUST with my wife?

I think a pizza parlor set up to follow MMO requirements would probably only have a 1-star rating on Yelp, that's for sure.

...

...what were we talking about, again..?

Right. Yeah. So - yes. I think that encouraging the introduction of quality-of-life features is more important than going with "it's always been this way before." Bear in mind that I'll be prepared to accept that this is your genuine stance ONLY if you're still angrily holding a candle for 1.0's "anima" system, where you couldn't really play the game meaningfully any more once you ran out.

Which, if so - I mean, way to hold to your convictions, my friend!

But I'd like to think that maybe you can agree that some things that are "staples of the genre" can actually be bad, or un-fun, and - if not outright removed - alternatives can be offered for people who won't otherwise interact with those systems in their current forms anyway.

None of those analogies make any sense because the analogy to MMO is pizza itself. When you signed up for an MMO you agreed that you were happy to play with other people to progress and that depending on the situation others may not be happy with your performance, that’s literally the core of an MMO. In your analogies you act like you didn’t sign up for any of this when you signed up for an MMO “I didn’t sign up to eat pizza with 7 strangers I signed up to eat pizza” yes the pizza is the MMO so by proxy you signed up to play with strangers on a game. If you don’t want to play with strangers why did you pick an MMO, second life sims and co-op games exist if you just wanted to play with your wife

Removing the corest of core elements of an MMO (playing with other people) isn’t a “quality of life feature” it’s removing the entire purpose of the game. If you want to play with your wife then queue together and have the other 6 spots fill around you, this isn’t a solo game

[Mawlzy]

Removing the corest of core elements of an MMO (playing with other people) isn’t a “quality of life feature” it’s removing the entire purpose of the game. If you want to play with your wife then queue together and have the other 6 spots fill around you, this isn’t a solo game

What? Every non-combat single quest, MSQ or otherwise is carried out solo. With a handful of exceptions, every piece of MSQ combat content can be carried out solo.

If you really believe that "solo play in a world of other players" will destroy 14, sorry to tell you, but that's already happened.

To your point below:

isn’t it funny that every time something actually important happens they make it into a dungeon/trial/raid

Saying “the busywork is solo” is not the gotcha you imagine it to be. Literally every important or critical moment in this game is done in a party

This is simply not true. Most of the significant events appear in cut scenes. When there are raids/dungeons/trials associated with those events, 98% can be carried out with NPCs; that is, solo.

[Supersnow845]

What? Every non-combat single quest, MSQ or otherwise is carried out solo. With a handful of exceptions, every piece of MSQ combat content can be carried out solo.

If you really believe that "solo play in a world of other players" will destroy 14, sorry to tell you, but that's already happened.

isn’t it funny that every time something actually important happens they make it into a dungeon/trial/raid

Saying “the busywork is solo” is not the gotcha you imagine it to be. Literally every important or critical moment in this game is done in a party

[IceEyes]

It's so tiring to read about how FF14 is an "MMO" when it's the least MMO of all the games I know of.

Almost every aspect of the MMO in this game, besides the heavy content, is dead.
Social interaction and obligations to each other are kept to a minimum here, there are no conflicts of interest, responsibility and moral principles do not exist.

Almost all active communities are gathered into faceless discord groups of several hundred or thousand people, led by several dozen enthusiasts.

This is a game literally for pensioners and closed societies, like sitting with friends in a bar and chill.
The biggest drama I've encountered in two years is that a girl flirted with two banboys at once in one static.

[Tyintheron]

None of those analogies make any sense because the analogy to MMO is pizza itself. When you signed up for an MMO you agreed that you were happy to play with other people to progress and that depending on the situation others may not be happy with your performance, that’s literally the core of an MMO. In your analogies you act like you didn’t sign up for any of this when you signed up for an MMO “I didn’t sign up to eat pizza with 7 strangers I signed up to eat pizza” yes the pizza is the MMO so by proxy you signed up to play with strangers on a game. If you don’t want to play with strangers why did you pick an MMO, second life sims and co-op games exist if you just wanted to play with your wife

Removing the corest of core elements of an MMO (playing with other people) isn’t a “quality of life feature” it’s removing the entire purpose of the game. If you want to play with your wife then queue together and have the other 6 spots fill around you, this isn’t a solo game

I don't believe I got whatever form it is you're talking about. Did I have to mail it in?

They've added a bunch of quality of life features since it started. So where do you draw the line? You didn't respond to the anima thing, so I assume you were fine with that, right? How about the glamour system? Is that okay? People used to (and still) complain that it doesn't let you "see" someone else's current level of gear/raid progression. How about Ishgardian restoration for getting your crafters up?

Where's the limit for you, personally?

Because what I keep finding is that quality of life changes are great until they might have an effect on something you, personally, like to do.

"Thank goodness we have glamour!" "Yeah, it's nice to look how I want!" "Those mounts are account wide, too!" "Thank goodness! Now I don't have to farm on every alt!" "Now we can try to get them to make raiding more accessible to solo players or smaller groups!" "NO DON'T TOUCH MY STAPLES OF THE GENRE"

My whole point was that one of the core parts of MMOs is that they evolve, and it tends to be for the better when it comes to quality of life. If you're clinging to "BUT MULTIPLAYER IN ALL THINGS" I unfortunately have some bad news about a whole lot of features that are already in the game. And if your point is "I really, REALLY take issue with that guy wanting to play this game ONLY with his wife because it goes against that middle M in MMO and I shall defend that M with my life" then... okay, I guess..?

I just disagree that anything design-wise should be "sacred" if it could be made more fun for more people.

[Supersnow845]

You have to consider what is a core feature of a genre and what isn’t. Glamour isn’t a core feature of an MMO, neither is legacy’s garbage anima system.

You can’t “QOL” your way out of the core features of a game, like what if I sucked at using a gun or was afraid of guns, should I ask to “QOL” guns out of a first person shooter game? No of course not because that’s a core facet of the game

You are basically saying “well since square tweaked around the edges of their own garbage spaghetti code that’s valid justification to completely change core facets of what makes up the foundation of the genre this game is a part of”

So I’ll again ask if you really really don’t want to play with other people WHY did you play an MMO? Nobody has provided me with an answer to this question. You knew it was an MMO, you knew that other people are involved in this game it’s literally in the name. If you don’t want to play with others why play the genre that has it in the name? I physically don’t understand this, you might not like the multiplayer aspect but others do, if you don’t want it there is other genres for you. You see it as QOL I see it as erosion of the foundation of the genre. So if you are so opposed to it why are you playing the type of game that unabashedly works this way. I don’t like say……..competitive PVP so I don’t play it, I don’t go into a competitive PVP game and go “I don’t like playing against others can we introduce modes where we cooperate against bots, it’s just QOL”

[IceEyes]

Nobody has provided me with an answer to this question.

This is so simple. Are u sure, u played this game all time?

This world alive. People like to be in alive world. They enjoy that like a tourists.

Performances by orchestral groups, many afkres in Limsa, crafters in Ishgard. Everywhere there is some kind of small bustle that creates an indescribable liveliness to the world.

People like to wander in such a world, mixing game elements and communication, without strong commitments. And chances they met a person with similar views much higher, because you are already in the same game.

Try IRL simply petting a random stranger on the street or asking him strange questions. The result for you will be extremely disappointing.

[Tint]

So I’ll again ask if you really really don’t want to play with other people WHY did you play an MMO? Nobody has provided me with an answer to this question.

"To be alone, you must have something to be alone from."
Queen of Beggars - Thief

People want to be with other players. They want to be seen as the great players with lots of achievments. But because of anxiety and other reasons they don't actually want to play with other people because they fear rejection. But at least they want to be close to other players. They want to be alone - not lonely.

[Tyintheron]

You have to consider what is a core feature of a genre and what isn’t. Glamour isn’t a core feature of an MMO, neither is legacy’s garbage anima system.

You can’t “QOL” your way out of the core features of a game, like what if I sucked at using a gun or was afraid of guns, should I ask to “QOL” guns out of a first person shooter game? No of course not because that’s a core facet of the game

Okay, so, if you want a real answer? When I started playing MMOs there weren't raids, or instanced dungeons, or a lot of the things that are given as staples of the genre these days. The appeal of an MMO (which, by the way, wasn't even what they were called back then) was never about those things, because they didn't exist. The appeal was just (as IceEyes stated very eloquently above me) that you got to roam around a world with a bunch of other people in it.

That's it. That's the appeal. That's the reason for playing.

I'm fine with other people being around. I'm fine with other people raiding. I'm fine with other people having a team of 20 moustached Roegadyn in their underpants doing squats in Limsa. It's all good stuff!

Now, if I can beat up a boss WITH my wife and WITHOUT LeetDude SixTeeNine whispering me to kill myself for wasting 3 minutes and 12 seconds of his valuable raiding time because I fat-fingered my keyboard at the exact wrong moment? That'd be a really nice quality-of-life addition to the game for me and, I'm sure, for a lot of others.

This idea that forced multiplayer combat is somehow this unassailable element of the genre without which the entire game would collapse is just a very old-fashioned genre-specific viewpoint. It never used to be - it was optional, and for bragging rights only.

I think it's an important option to have for people who like that sort of thing, don't get me wrong - but saying that it's "what I signed up for" is way off the mark.