Why do casual players seem entitled to cosmetic items added in game?

[Collin_Sky]

Except experienced raiders don't want new people anywhere near the content, especially when there's gil to be made by keeping the number of people running it per data center to a minimum. The grandest irony is that even if casuals DID want to do the content, they're explicitly forbidden from trying to when most PFs are asking you to have cleared all of current Savage/have BiS from there, and they can't just go and clear said Savage hurdle because its PFs ALSO have strict requirements set up to make sure they stay filtered out.

You are literally making things up to justify your argument.
This is Light PF at time of posting. All of the ilevel/entry requirements are completely reasonable (most PFs don't even have an ilevel requirement). So saying everyone expects BiS and the requirements are strict is pure lies.

[Tyintheron]

I'm not completely adverse to difficult content, I just immediately shrink and duck out of doing it when failure drags OTHER people down with me versus messing up and I'm the only corpse, and that goes double in a game like Final Fantasy 14 where "dying/failing = you are bad, never queue again" is a common sentiment, and there's way more people that will jump down your throat for costing them a wipe then will tell you to just keep going.

I'm just quoting this because it's actually a really, really good point to make.

Have I run really difficult solo content in a game a couple of hundred times to get the reward? I have! Am I willing to waste everyone else's time while I learn a fight they already know and suffer through me fat-fingering my keys a few dozen times? Absolutely not. Will that particular issue stop me from playing that high-level content at all? It will! And that's only compounded by the additional factor of Blazzta WuTang discussing his relationship with my mother afterwards. I'm too old and tired and disgruntled to put myself through that sort of thing a dozen times over 28 different hour-of-waiting 24 man parties.

So what's the answer?

Given that MMOs have always struggled with the "only 5% of our users engage with raid content" type of thing, I'm actually wondering if - maybe - the real thing that MMOs need to get raid participation up is the ability to practice the fights. No-reward (or first completion reward, to encourage trying) all-bot-run instances that let you see and practice the mechanics as much as you'd like before queueing up for the real deal.

That would give static teams the ability to play the content with progression rewards 300 times in a row if they wanted to, while also letting people with less time practice the fight's mechanics sans-reward on their own terms.

[Collin_Sky]

So what's the answer?

Find friends who either don't mind you causing wipes, or progress at a similar pace to you.
This is literally an MMO, making social connections is one of the primary purposes you play them.

If you aren't against actually doing difficult content and feel bad when you cause wipes, then find people who are similar to you in mentality/skill level and learn content as a group where the pressure is off and the goal is to just have fun learning at a pre-determined pace. It's not rocket science. What do you think us hardcore raiders do?

Given that MMOs have always struggled with the "only 5% of our users engage with raid content" type of thing, I'm actually wondering if - maybe - the real thing that MMOs need to get raid participation up is the ability to practice the fights. No-reward (or first completion reward, to encourage trying) all-bot-run instances that let you see and practice the mechanics as much as you'd like before queueing up for the real deal.

https://www.xivsim.com/

[Tyintheron]

If you aren't against actually doing difficult content and feel bad when you cause wipes, then find people who are similar to you in mentality/skill level and learn content as a group where the pressure is off and the goal is to just have fun learning at a pre-determined pace. It's not rocket science. What do you think us hardcore raiders do?

I've been a "hardcore raider" before, so I know how it all works, and the time involved. These days it's time that's the main issue for me, personally, so I was speaking more broadly.

But I absolutely get - and sympathize with - the idea that some things in the game take too much time for a lot of people. I don't think suggesting that either/or is a reasonable approach to cover all their bases - people with the time and inclination to raid, and people without.

I can understand people having a philosophical objection to it. I just don't agree with it.

And thanks for that link! Would still be good to see that as an easy-to-access option in the game itself to encourage its use and make it feel more like a part of "the process" of raiding, but nice to know it exists!

[Tyintheron]

That's kinda why I wouldn't mind Trusts for Trials & Raids, because at least I got to see the story even if the rewards were minimal/zero, and if I DID want to do the "proper" version for the full/any rewards, at least I know what I'm in for that a guide or video can't do because doing is better than showing sometimes ...BUT that would require redoing said Trials & Raids to be doable by NPCs, and absolutely nobody wants that apparently (which is understandable)

I keep hoping for two things from trusts: trials/raids required for story progression, and the ability to just have non-player slots filled in with NPCs so my wife and I can slog through whatever content we'd like together without needing to feel like we're klutzing it up for everyone else.

Clinging to the multiplayer side of things being necessary is feeling more and more like one of those "because that's how it's ALWAYS been!" types of arguments. This game's 10 years old. The genre itself is, what... 40, 50 years old? It's probably okay to provide more options by now without The King of Multiplayer Video Games getting angry about it.

[Supersnow845]

I keep hoping for two things from trusts: trials/raids required for story progression, and the ability to just have non-player slots filled in with NPCs so my wife and I can slog through whatever content we'd like together without needing to feel like we're klutzing it up for everyone else.

Clinging to the multiplayer side of things being necessary is feeling more and more like one of those "because that's how it's ALWAYS been!" types of arguments. This game's 10 years old. The genre itself is, what... 40, 50 years old? It's probably okay to provide more options by now without The King of Multiplayer Video Games getting angry about it.

“Clinging to old ways”

My brother in Christ it’s an MMO, do you understand what those three words stand for

It’s like walking into a pizza place and wondering why they only make pizza and declaring it’s because “they’ve always done it this way”

[Mawlzy]

“Clinging to old ways”

My brother in Christ it’s an MMO, do you understand what those three words stand for

It’s like walking into a pizza place and wondering why they only make pizza and declaring it’s because “they’ve always done it this way”

Probably pointless relitigating what "MMO" actually means, what it should mean, and what it could mean. That said, the evolution of the genre has seen the practical definition move away from "group content" to an increasing amount of "solo content in a world of other players." Many couples have requested the ability to play together and have the light party filled by NPCs. It has no negative impact on anyone else.

This is why many of us find content requiring statics and party finder to be quaint.

[Supersnow845]

Probably pointless relitigating what "MMO" actually means, what it should mean, and what it could mean. That said, the evolution of the genre has seen the practical definition move away from "group content" to an increasing amount of "solo content in a world of other players." Many couples have requested the ability to play together and have the light party filled by NPCs. It has no negative impact on anyone else.

This is why many of us find content requiring statics and party finder to be quaint.

In a game like 14 how would moving to “solo in a world of other players” maintain any semblance of interaction. The player economy is useless in this game, if content can be done solo it’s always more efficient to do it solo

In other games that are more solo friendly than 14 there is still stronger degrees of interaction because either they still force you to interact with the player economy or they still lock meaningful rewards behind group content

Attempting to do a similar thing in 14 would just kill everything instantly as you’d basically be playing solo in a world of dynamic NPC’s because the rest of what makes an MMO interactive has already been ripped out of 14

It’s contrived to say in the 14 forum but if you don’t want to play with other players you may not like them an MMO is not the game for you