Why do casual players seem entitled to cosmetic items added in game?

[BigCheez]

No no no no....I would hardly call ppl who craft that stuff casual...casuals arent hardcore crafters and I have no idea where you even got that idea from sir....

Hardcore crafters? lmao. How hard do you think it is to do a few leves at the start of an expansion and grab a macro from Teamcraft?

[Kaurhz]

It takes longer hard work to gear up to the latest pentamelded crafter gear and tools to even be able to reliably HQ craft the week one gear that the raiders would be interested in buying, than it takes to prog most savages. It takes dedication and preparation, so say nothing of unlocking advanced resource nodes. Can we talk about the definition of casual used here?

Uh I do think this is actually false, the amount of leniency afforded with crafters in the 'modern era' is just so massive. People put far, far too much pressure and expectancy on themselves. Like, you can get yourself at the entry point which is the gear with default melds, and you would not really have much deficit versus someone that would be literally decked out with tens of millions in melds. This is something that has been greatly streamlined with crafters over the years. Control disparities are not as great as they were due to Innovation reworks, and similarly since there is a greater emphasis put on HQ materials for everyone.

The amount of preparation and dedication required is also greatly lower now. Like, back in HW if you wanted a Grade V materia you were spending 200-500k per attempt, and you would have special concealed nodes which had further rare items needed like Dryad Saps for Astral Birch. As a result of this you would easily see chestpieces alone used for raiding go for a good 40M. These are things which IMO do need to return to the game, as it did give crafters and gatherers another dimension to their gameplay (I do absolutely think people would complain here though)

What I will say though is there is a lot more of a collaborative effort between crafters and raiders, so more often than not they will be paying a fraction of what a full set is on the market, and the supply/demand aspect for crafted gear is already very solid, so I don't think it is a fair comparison to make anyway.

It’s easy to pin all your problems on hardcore players when everyone you don’t like is hardcore

“Hardcore crafting” don’t make me laugh. Making 4-5 sets of gear in the savage sale window can be done playing 2-3 hours per day and barely requires any prep

If you don’t want to put any effort into this game just admit that, not try to exclude everyone who wants to put effort in to some “other” group you can loop in with the hardcore playerbase

Hardcore crafters? lmao. How hard do you think it is to do a few leves at the start of an expansion and grab a macro from Teamcraft?

'Hardcore' crafters absolutely are a thing. Granted, I do not think it is necessarily a hardcore endeavor in itself.

[Eyrilona]

It’s easy to pin all your problems on hardcore players when everyone you don’t like is hardcore

“Hardcore crafting” don’t make me laugh. Making 4-5 sets of gear in the savage sale window can be done playing 2-3 hours per day and barely requires any prep

If you don’t want to put any effort into this game just admit that, not try to exclude everyone who wants to put effort in to some “other” group you can loop in with the hardcore playerbase

I feel like you missed the point of the exchange there. I am one of those fully tooled up crafters ready craft the next best crafted tier as soon as 7.2 dropped. But it's late here, this is the last post I'm writing today as I am going to bed right now, so I am going to leave this and maybe another crafter will challenge your notion of "barely any prep needed".

[BigCheez]

'Hardcore' crafters absolutely are a thing.

For sure. You don't need to be anything remotely resembling a hardcore crafter to make millions off of raiders on savage patch releases though. In the modern game, leveling your crafters and gatherers doesn't take long at all. Gearing them is instant, it's just a gil investment. Then the actual crafts are just a case of grabbing macros from Teamcraft and going ham.

I have a few super casual friends who spend a couple of hours crafting a few sets plus some food and pots on patch day, undercut a few times per day until it sells and they make a decent amount of gil. It's very low effort and time investment. There's nothing hardcore about it.

[TaleraRistain]

It's difficult to understand the reasonings. People complained that Delubrum had a hairstyle as a rare drop so they added an token exchange to make it easier available. And now they lock a hairstyle behind the 24 man savage.

And in two years they will gift it away with the moogle tomestones.


With all the mounts, pets and now hairstyle they added to unreal trials, criterion and chaotic raid it becomes an expensive affair for a casual player to collect such things. They all sell for a couple of millions each. It puts hardcore players in a position where they profit a bit too much of casual players and it feels even more like a class divide. The "upper class" gets all the content, nice rewards and for playing their preferred content they also get tons of money. But they don't even need it because they don't have to pay 20 million for a hairstyle. The prices are already rising again.

This is a really good point that I wanted to highlight so it doesn't get lost. With certain exceptions like the Unreal exclusive mounts and minions, most of the rewards for the harder content in the game can only be obtained by doing that content and is not allowed to be traded or sold. And even with Unreal mounts and minions, there are systems in the game (ie the fact it's weekly) that keep that content alive allowing new people to decide to participate. And with many people doing Unreal each week, the prices for the things that are exclusive to it (which I believe are only a couple of the total offerings, some of the others can be gotten through WT IIRC) stay at a reasonable range. So it limits how much hardcore players can profit from casual players. This is tipping that balance a bit too far in the hardcore direction again.

[Rueby]

I'm not a hardcore player, but why are people (likely casuals) using hardcore players as a punching bag for what's wrong at the game and as if the hardcore player is the wall preventing the flood of god tier casual content and not SE drip feeding us all content??? What's wrong with you people...

[Kaurhz]

For sure. You don't need to be anything remotely resembling a hardcore crafter to make millions off of raiders on savage patch releases though. In the modern game, leveling your crafters and gatherers doesn't take long at all. Gearing them is instant, it's just a gil investment. Then the actual crafts are just a case of grabbing macros from Teamcraft and going ham.

I have a few super casual friends who spend a couple of hours crafting a few sets plus some food and pots on patch day, undercut a few times per day until it sells and they make a decent amount of gil. It's very low effort and time investment. There's nothing hardcore about it.

I don't disagree, there is nothing hardcore about it ultimately on a fundamental level, but then much of this is afforded by the fact that SE has such little self-respect of the side-content in this game. If you look at an experienced hardcore crafter versus one doing it casually you will night and day see difference in their results and pacing (not neccessarily associated with melds). You will even see this for those that craft directly for a static. You can see teams of 3-4 crafters be slower than a single person crafting for another static, just due to the amount of familiarity and prep done beforehand. Like I agree, you don't need to be, but community expectation and everything.. For me personally crafting on the market is a miserable experience with how the game is now. I am always doing prep way in advance so that I am going directly through statics

Much of the state of this is around some bizarre 'expectation' of what people should do.. Set by both themselves and the community (This happens for both crafters and raiders). Like, you don't need to fully deck yourself out to craft, you can approach it casually and make 20Mln, I mean you can do this anyway by just merely flipping. The game is very linear, the patches are very linear, how people consume the content is very linear and predictable. Granted, the latter is not necessarily a mindset I would expect from most people, just due to the nature of the activity.

[NamiRocket]

I'm not a hardcore player, but why are people (likely casuals) using hardcore players as a punching bag for what's wrong at the game and as if the hardcore player is the wall preventing the flood of god tier casual content and not SE drip feeding us all content??? What's wrong with you people...

Asking the real questions.

The raid content and its rewards aren't the problem. The problem is that, if you don't enjoy doing any of that, you're just not gonna have a lot of fresh, new content to sink your teeth into past MSQ until the field operations are out. And, given they don't tend to add that stuff until the X.2 patches, that's a whole lot of waiting with not a lot else that's new to do.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Asking the real questions.

The raid content and its rewards aren't the problem. The problem is that, if you don't enjoy doing any of that, you're just not gonna have a lot of fresh, new content to sink your teeth into past MSQ until the field operations are out. And, given they don't tend to add that stuff until the X.2 patches, that's a whole lot of waiting with not a lot else that's new to do.

Yeah, I agree with that. I think that is the real issue. It's the fact that if you don't really interact with things like EXs, Savages, and Ults you have really have nothing to do other than log in and afk. I do think SQ needs to change how they release stuff. CAR shouldn't had release this patch, what should be released is the field operations or some other content that isn't really aimed at the savage crowd.

[BigCheez]

As someone from Dynamis, you're preaching to the choir about marketboard prices on bloody damn CONSUMABLES of all things and it's something that should be busted wide open.

But alas, that would require more hardcore players to engage with gathering and crafting, and we know how they feel about content they deem "beneath" them, to say nothing of the low opinion they (and you) apparently hold for said players that do the gathering and crafting.

I craft my own gear/consumables, thank you very much.

I'm not complaining about crafters/gatherers. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in casual players complaining about having to buy items from people who raid because the majority of those raiders are pumping the money back into the pockets of more casual players.