Why do casual players seem entitled to cosmetic items added in game?

[Kaurhz]

It takes longer hard work to gear up to the latest pentamelded crafter gear and tools to even be able to reliably HQ craft the week one gear that the raiders would be interested in buying, than it takes to prog most savages. It takes dedication and preparation, so say nothing of unlocking advanced resource nodes. Can we talk about the definition of casual used here?

Uh I do think this is actually false, the amount of leniency afforded with crafters in the 'modern era' is just so massive. People put far, far too much pressure and expectancy on themselves. Like, you can get yourself at the entry point which is the gear with default melds, and you would not really have much deficit versus someone that would be literally decked out with tens of millions in melds. This is something that has been greatly streamlined with crafters over the years. Control disparities are not as great as they were due to Innovation reworks, and similarly since there is a greater emphasis put on HQ materials for everyone.

The amount of preparation and dedication required is also greatly lower now. Like, back in HW if you wanted a Grade V materia you were spending 200-500k per attempt, and you would have special concealed nodes which had further rare items needed like Dryad Saps for Astral Birch. As a result of this you would easily see chestpieces alone used for raiding go for a good 40M. These are things which IMO do need to return to the game, as it did give crafters and gatherers another dimension to their gameplay (I do absolutely think people would complain here though)

What I will say though is there is a lot more of a collaborative effort between crafters and raiders, so more often than not they will be paying a fraction of what a full set is on the market, and the supply/demand aspect for crafted gear is already very solid, so I don't think it is a fair comparison to make anyway.

It’s easy to pin all your problems on hardcore players when everyone you don’t like is hardcore

“Hardcore crafting” don’t make me laugh. Making 4-5 sets of gear in the savage sale window can be done playing 2-3 hours per day and barely requires any prep

If you don’t want to put any effort into this game just admit that, not try to exclude everyone who wants to put effort in to some “other” group you can loop in with the hardcore playerbase

Hardcore crafters? lmao. How hard do you think it is to do a few leves at the start of an expansion and grab a macro from Teamcraft?

'Hardcore' crafters absolutely are a thing. Granted, I do not think it is necessarily a hardcore endeavor in itself.

[BigCheez]

'Hardcore' crafters absolutely are a thing.

For sure. You don't need to be anything remotely resembling a hardcore crafter to make millions off of raiders on savage patch releases though. In the modern game, leveling your crafters and gatherers doesn't take long at all. Gearing them is instant, it's just a gil investment. Then the actual crafts are just a case of grabbing macros from Teamcraft and going ham.

I have a few super casual friends who spend a couple of hours crafting a few sets plus some food and pots on patch day, undercut a few times per day until it sells and they make a decent amount of gil. It's very low effort and time investment. There's nothing hardcore about it.

[Kaurhz]

For sure. You don't need to be anything remotely resembling a hardcore crafter to make millions off of raiders on savage patch releases though. In the modern game, leveling your crafters and gatherers doesn't take long at all. Gearing them is instant, it's just a gil investment. Then the actual crafts are just a case of grabbing macros from Teamcraft and going ham.

I have a few super casual friends who spend a couple of hours crafting a few sets plus some food and pots on patch day, undercut a few times per day until it sells and they make a decent amount of gil. It's very low effort and time investment. There's nothing hardcore about it.

I don't disagree, there is nothing hardcore about it ultimately on a fundamental level, but then much of this is afforded by the fact that SE has such little self-respect of the side-content in this game. If you look at an experienced hardcore crafter versus one doing it casually you will night and day see difference in their results and pacing (not neccessarily associated with melds). You will even see this for those that craft directly for a static. You can see teams of 3-4 crafters be slower than a single person crafting for another static, just due to the amount of familiarity and prep done beforehand. Like I agree, you don't need to be, but community expectation and everything.. For me personally crafting on the market is a miserable experience with how the game is now. I am always doing prep way in advance so that I am going directly through statics

Much of the state of this is around some bizarre 'expectation' of what people should do.. Set by both themselves and the community (This happens for both crafters and raiders). Like, you don't need to fully deck yourself out to craft, you can approach it casually and make 20Mln, I mean you can do this anyway by just merely flipping. The game is very linear, the patches are very linear, how people consume the content is very linear and predictable. Granted, the latter is not necessarily a mindset I would expect from most people, just due to the nature of the activity.

[BigCheez]

As someone from Dynamis, you're preaching to the choir about marketboard prices on bloody damn CONSUMABLES of all things and it's something that should be busted wide open.

But alas, that would require more hardcore players to engage with gathering and crafting, and we know how they feel about content they deem "beneath" them, to say nothing of the low opinion they (and you) apparently hold for said players that do the gathering and crafting.

I craft my own gear/consumables, thank you very much.

I'm not complaining about crafters/gatherers. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in casual players complaining about having to buy items from people who raid because the majority of those raiders are pumping the money back into the pockets of more casual players.

[Lilapop]

I craft my own gear/consumables, thank you very much.

I'm not complaining about crafters/gatherers. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in casual players complaining about having to buy items from people who raid because the majority of those raiders are pumping the money back into the pockets of more casual players.

When has this ever been a complaint?

[NamiRocket]

And that's assuming the Field Operation also doesn't get hit with a sudden difficulty spike, or the rewards are actually worth the wait, or how there's nothing stopping hardcore players from doing it too so they basically ended up with double the goodies anyway. It's a whole lot of waiting just to end up disappointed while STILL being crapped on too.
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Far be it for me to tell you what should or shouldn't be seen as difficult for you, but given that field operations haven't really been anything but casual thus far (outside of some of the raid content found within), I have to imagine none of that is going to change any time soon. But that's just my humble opinion as a relatively casual player.

Hardcore raider attitudes AND casual player attitude are a contributing factor here. The lack of content sucks, sure. There's a vocal majority of hardcore raiders "happy" that they are the target audience and don't want to stop BEING the target audience. On the flipside, there's a vocal majority of casual players who are "upset" they aren't currently the target audience and feel like the hardcore raiders are being catered to at the moment.

No one on the forums is a majority on either side. Normal people don't come here.

[Lilapop]

Far be it for me to tell you what should or shouldn't be seen as difficult for you, but given that field operations haven't really been anything but casual thus far (outside of some of the raid content found within), I have to imagine none of that is going to change any time soon. But that's just my humble opinion as a relatively casual player.



No one on the forums is a majority on either side. Normal people don't come here.

Vocal majority. Majority overall don't use forums.

[BigCheez]

You're an exception to the rule then, because the general attitude from hardcore players seems to be that gatherers/crafters are just dirty wretches they have the misfortune of having to deal with sometimes, though I sort of get it, as I actively avoid buying crafted stuff when I can because I don't like the prices either (it's also why I don't bother with food or potions at all, literally not worth it, even if I make them myself).

Though, I'm also willing to bet that while said hardcore players would love to see said player wares crater below vendor price, they would raise holy hell if you suggested dropping the price of this *one* hairstyle by even half all while touting something about how their "time and effort" is worth more somehow.

"the general attitude from hardcore players seems to be that gatherers/crafters are just dirty wretches they have the misfortune of having to deal with sometimes"

Who is saying this? From where I'm standing, this just looks like you putting words in people's mouths. Everyone I know either crafts their own stuff, knows someone who will craft for them and buys from them at a cheaper price, or just gets on with it and buys what they need from the marketboard without whining about it.

I don't think it's particularly shocking news that most people would like for the things that they buy on the marketboard to drop in price but would not like for the things they sell on the marketboard to drop in price. I think that applies to pretty much everyone.