Why do casual players seem entitled to cosmetic items added in game?

[DynnDiablos]

The disdain for "casuals' always amuses me because the success of FFXIV is because of us - period. Without us logging in, enjoying our houses, GPOSING, running venues, and contributing our sub, you extreme raiders would have NADA, ZERO, ZILCH. And now? With the anemic casual content, and stuff we'd love to do being pushed back further into later patches, and SE going all in on hardcore content for the 2% of the game population, we are starting to not care and bounce. Let's see how long 14 sustains when the playerbase you so loathe, all says...you know what? We're done.

[IOwn92FCHouses]

The disdain for "casuals' always amuses me because the success of FFXIV is because of us - period. Without us logging in, enjoying our houses, GPOSING, running venues, and contributing our sub, you extreme raiders would have NADA, ZERO, ZILCH. And now? With the anemic casual content, and stuff we'd love to do being pushed back further into later patches, and SE going all in on hardcore content for the 2% of the game population, we are starting to not care and bounce. Let's see how long 14 sustains when the playerbase you so loathe, all says...you know what? We're done.

No the success of the game rests entirely on people like me that supported the game back in the 1.x days. That offered feedback, support, and loyalty to show that a rebuild would be successful.

All you casuals do is get carried by me through your normal content. I can personally guatentee that I've put more money into this game than you have.

Have a seat. I'm the target audience at the moment. I'll help you not take 30 minutes to clear the latest dungeon right after I clear the latest savage-level content Square has released for me.

See? Pretty easy to sound like a cringy badass, huh? But something tells me you weren't pretending or using hyperbole. That you actually believe the us vs them is player vs player and not player vs company.

[Gurgeh]

No the success of the game rests entirely on people like me that supported the game back in the 1.x days. That offered feedback, support, and loyalty to show that a rebuild would be successful.

All you casuals do is get carried by me through your normal content. I can personally guatentee that I've put more money into this game than you have.

Have a seat. I'm the target audience at the moment. I'll help you not take 30 minutes to clear the latest dungeon right after I clear the latest savage-level content Square has released for me.

See? Pretty easy to sound like a cringy badass, huh? But something tells me you weren't pretending or using hyperbole. That you actually believe the us vs them is player vs player and not player vs company.

It is us versus then though for the following reason.
In my experience it's always,
"We a want more challenging 'casual' content."
Casual content= I dint need to organise dates. I can cancel at last moment without telling anyone and feeling bad. I dint need to join discord of 100s of people with their cliques and hidden rules. I dint have to jump on voice and deal with people's ACT bullshit if I've got no patience for it that day.
Challenging content = something that will at least kill my character, and take me 30 clears to get close to perfect at. (Wiping is optional for me. Dint care if I do or don't as long I if I'm with randos I make prog every other day I attempt it)

But we don't get that. It's 3 wall to walls. 3 bosses. OP gear. We basically 'never' 'NEVER' wipe except on day 0. And we almost never KO. Often not even on day 0. It's random dungeons that don't use your full abilities, speed run trash mobs. Or 1 of 3 expert dungeons. Alliances you only see 1/3 of bits mechanics.
Peak casual content is Alpha 3.0 normal. Best casual content in the game. You can carry, on average be carried, occasionally wipe. And still kill yourself in a second if your finger up too badly.

But like I say we don't get that.

So we say can you make X harder.
We don't get that

So we say can you make y a bit easier and more party of DF friendly.
Not only do we not get that, but we get "ultimate raiders" chilling in with 'no you can't make my extremes easier!.

Then we get "well I don't ultimate, I dont do savage, and I have loads of content farming Extreemes"
But then you find out ("well yes have done PF savage in the past." Or even "well yes I have done ultimate.")

So we can't have anything. You've got your content all the way to ultimate and your keeping it and we get nothing. More 3x3 dungeons and OP alliance cheese fests where you don't even get to see the mechanics.

There is an easy solution. Stop syncing stuff to end expansion. Sync it to day 0+10 ilvls. Job done. Move on. Everything. So that for everything.

My worst gear in Chaotic was 714-16. Mele. I was second lowest HP higher than one healer but not both.
My best job PLD 722, always the lowest tank even with roast chicken. They are all savage players. Pretty much.

[Kaurhz]

It is us versus then though for the following reason.
In my experience it's always,
"We a want more challenging 'casual' content."
Casual content= I dint need to organise dates. I can cancel at last moment without telling anyone and feeling bad. I dint need to join discord of 100s of people with their cliques and hidden rules. I dint have to jump on voice and deal with people's ACT bullshit if I've got no patience for it that day.
Challenging content = something that will at least kill my character, and take me 30 clears to get close to perfect at. (Wiping is optional for me. Dint care if I do or don't as long I if I'm with randos I make prog every other day I attempt it)

But we don't get that. It's 3 wall to walls. 3 bosses. OP gear. We basically 'never' 'NEVER' wipe except on day 0. And we almost never KO. Often not even on day 0. It's random dungeons that don't use your full abilities, speed run trash mobs. Or 1 of 3 expert dungeons. Alliances you only see 1/3 of bits mechanics.
Peak casual content is Alpha 3.0 normal. Best casual content in the game. You can carry, on average be carried, occasionally wipe. And still kill yourself in a second if your finger up too badly.

But like I say we don't get that.

So we say can you make X harder.
We don't get that

So we say can you make y a bit easier and more party of DF friendly.
Not only do we not get that, but we get "ultimate raiders" chilling in with 'no you can't make my extremes easier!.

Then we get "well I don't ultimate, I dont do savage, and I have loads of content farming Extreemes"
But then you find out ("well yes have done PF savage in the past." Or even "well yes I have done ultimate.")

So we can't have anything. You've got your content all the way to ultimate and your keeping it and we get nothing. More 3x3 dungeons and OP alliance cheese fests where you don't even get to see the mechanics.

There is an easy solution. Stop syncing stuff to end expansion. Sync it to day 0+10 ilvls. Job done. Move on. Everything. So that for everything.

My worst gear in Chaotic was 714-16. Mele. I was second lowest HP higher than one healer but not both.
My best job PLD 722, always the lowest tank even with roast chicken. They are all savage players. Pretty much.

To be honest, everything you've said here only supports the idea that it is a player vs company issue rather than a player vs player (casual vs hardcore player) issue. A lot of hardcore players I've found would actually prefer something else, because whilst they have got the bulk of the content this expansion, it is still ultimately only weekly objectives they are logging in to do. Granted, it is a heck lot more than what casuals currently have, but this is not because of hardcore players, it is because even to do this after a decade of development, SE still doesn't understand the actual issues that players have.

[Gurgeh]

To be honest, everything you've said here only supports the idea that it is a player vs company issue rather than a player vs player (casual vs hardcore player) issue. A lot of hardcore players I've found would actually prefer something else, because whilst they have got the bulk of the content this expansion, it is still ultimately only weekly objectives they are logging in to do. Granted, it is a heck lot more than what casuals currently have, but this is not because of hardcore players, it is because even to do this after a decade of development, SE still doesn't understand the actual issues that players have.

Then please, 'especially' if your ultimate raiders, just back casuals up even if they are asking for easier savage, or stay out of the discussion. Please. That means changing human nature which isn't going to happen. But, yeah we are not going to stay quiet if ultimate raiders can't either.
Did me personally you could just ask them to stagger savage MUCH further away from normal content so we can get prepared. (No I dint care about crafters I'm afraid, given them the best glams in the game to craft or something. Add a husbandry crafter, and snow them to craft mounts.)
I want to raid. I dint want to craft. I played the game every day for four years. Bought 2 houses. I dint RP it buy mounts and stuff and I still could afford crafted gear. I played a game I enjoyed every day for four years. Dont tell me I'm playing it wrong, and needed to suffer it for four years, if I dint have enough Gil to raid.

or DONT LET ME GET THROUGH FIVE EXPANSIONS BEFORE NEEDING TO USE (find out about) CRAFTED AND PENTA AND ENHANCING MATS. At least then I can start preparing at the pace I need to. Flipping release raid gear at the end of the last expansion. (Dont tell me that's impossible. They can tweak the stats)

[Voidmage]

Then please, 'especially' if your ultimate raiders, just back casuals up even if they are asking for easier savage, or stay out of the discussion. Please. That means changing human nature which isn't going to happen. But, yeah we are not going to stay quiet if ultimate raiders can't either.

There are raiders backing you up even in these very threads. Heck most raiders are completely fine and decent people who just want to have fun be it casual or harder content.
General consens IS that DT is absolutely lacking in content that is not raiding.
Raiders say it, content creators say it but lets be honest it doesn't matter if you are backed up because the devs just do what they want anyway. I would bet money that they will not change anything for the next chaotic raid like it was with criterion which had also complaints about difficulty.

There will be no easier savage and frankly there shouldn't be because its savage after all.
There should however be other battle content that is what you ask for and that was supposed to be chaotic before they butchered it.

The problem is not backing up or opinions being given here... it's that the devs wont listen anyway to them or implement changes so slowly you will only see them an expansion later at the earliest.
We are all playing Don Quijote here.

[FuturePastNow]

The playerbase yearns for Eureka III

[Gurgeh]

...
We are all playing Don Quijote here.

Does that use a sub model or F2P? (I've got no time for Gatcha and fomo)
;-)

[Kaurhz]

Then please, 'especially' if your ultimate raiders, just back casuals up even if they are asking for easier savage, or stay out of the discussion. Please. That means changing human nature which isn't going to happen. But, yeah we are not going to stay quiet if ultimate raiders can't either.
Did me personally you could just ask them to stagger savage MUCH further away from normal content so we can get prepared. (No I dint care about crafters I'm afraid, given them the best glams in the game to craft or something. Add a husbandry crafter, and snow them to craft mounts.)
I want to raid. I dint want to craft. I played the game every day for four years. Bought 2 houses. I dint RP it buy mounts and stuff and I still could afford crafted gear. I played a game I enjoyed every day for four years. Dont tell me I'm playing it wrong, and needed to suffer it for four years, if I dint have enough Gil to raid.

People aren't going to advocate for this. Nobody should be advocating for that, not even you. We should be persistently advocating for a step up in intermediate content to help people transition. We should be asking for improvements to Novice Network to further teach personal responsibility in a group setting. We should be advocating for content to be developed and released in tandem with difficult content. I can confidently say that after 7.4 the poles will shift entirely. Raiders will then be eating breadcrumbs once again until 8.05 when the next savage encounter is released. It is in no way shape or form a good way to structure and organize content.

Even then, even if raiders end up backing you it changes nothing, because this isn't a case of who they are listening to. It's a case of they are either listening to nobody, or a select few and doing what they want anyway, or they are listening but are having fatal misconceptions about the feedback, leading to fairly bad introductions.

Some of the rest of this is a bit muddled but as I understand it..

There is no right or wrong way to play the game or make Gil for that matter. Look at the past in the game to see what'll happen in future. SE are very predictable like this.. If you hate crafting and hate Exploratory even, then you can still make Gil through combat, go farm materia, don't unload it on the market instantly, understand that with each patch of crafted gear for battle you need materia, sell the materia, heck you can buy it cheap and then merchant it.

Understand what people need and when they need it.. Even crafters, prior to patch, go fill yourself with a nice stack of Heliometry tomestones, 7.2 drops, and you suddenly have a highly valued currency. Use it to sell those items, or use those tomes as bartering, people do "Your tomes, my mats -> Your gear" all the time on party finder, and it's very lucrative for crafters to do that.. They make some Gil, they spend absolutely nothing on Tomes, and you get a significant discount.

Heck, you can do this on patch day and include hunts in the process.. Sell your items, then go do hunt trains for a few cycles, and suddenly before you know it by the late afternoon / early evening you will have easily capped your tomes a couple of times and will easily have been 2-8M Gil for only an evening amount of work, and no it isn't hyperbole like the "Go make millions an hour" comment by doing Bunnies in Pagos/Pyros/Hydatos (They are lucrative, but not that lucrative), or you then have more to barter with people.

It isn't that you're playing the game wrong, but you're playing it in a very restrictive manner.

I'm of the opinion it can be both player vs company and player vs player. Unless we're all suddenly under the delusional that hardcore players never use the term "filthy casual" unironically and casual players never think hardcore players are trying to make the entire game "harder" and more "worth their time." (The validity of the facts in either pov in this instance is irrelevant), both forms of "us vs them" are very real

The root cause of the issue is player versus company. The attacking itself is of player versus player, that much is true, but it isn't the actual issue, and nor is it the cause, honestly. It's just a symptom of the issue of company not listening to players, or doing an exceptionally poor job at it for that matter. Treating the actual issues as player versus player is just not addressing anything, and just adding needless rhetoric. Like, you can call it a player versus player issue to the extent we're just attacking each other, but ultimately all of the issues are stemming from SE and decisions they themselves have made

Granted we shouldn't be attacking anyway, but as I've been misunderstood a few times today, of probably my own making, I should clarify that by player versus player I am referring to where the issue as as of a direct result of the player, e.g., some people are blaming casuals for some content being easier or for modern job decisions, just as some casuals may blame hardcore folk for the incessant focus, or when more difficult changes are made, when in reality it is just the devs not doing a very good job of understanding a lot of the feedback.

[Lilapop]

snip

Pretending every instance of "player versus player" conflict is a response of player vs company is delusional. A vast majority? sure. The overall community however is far from perfect.