Why do casual players seem entitled to cosmetic items added in game?

[Khryseis_Astra]

Because Final Fantasy has drastically (I can't stress the word "Drastically" enough) lagged behind modern games regarding Character Customization, and people want haircuts.

And honestly, I didn’t think that this hairstyle really fit the raid. It would been a nice thing to add to the Eternal Bond packages, with all the flowers in it. It looks like wedding hair to me. Cloud of Darkness’ hairstyle would have been a fun addition and would probably look nicer with the raid gear. lol

But I agree with others in that once there’s fewer “all first-timer” clears, the price of anything sellable is going to increase dramatically. Someone mentioned the minions from the 90 Elpis maps, which apart from being older content, have a severely low drop rate, in that I’ve literally done hundreds of them and never landed on the silver disk! I bought the Hades one for 12 mil early on. Now Hythlodaeus is going for over 49 mil, so that one will probably forever remain out of reach. You can almost guarantee that the Wisp of Darkness will be even more expensive in the future, because it’s also a random drop that can’t be bought with totems. The new hairstyle can be bought with the totems, but it’s going to be a lot harder to get once the bonuses dry up, thus raising the price, which is already anywhere from 49-99 mil depending on server.

[Supersnow845]

Obviously my opinions aren’t very popular here but let me ask you all a legit question about the fear of the rising cost of the hairstyle

What is so bad about rare items driving the economy around?

Think about it, we have an entire game economy that’s basically there for nothing more than the convenience of skipping some elements of savage prep and not much else. If crafted gear could be bought with tomestones you could functionally delete the entire player economy considering it just sorta exists. Compare this to something like say…….RuneScape where the amount of gold you have and your ability to obtain it consistently is directly tied to your power in the game and leads to the ability to accumulate rare items and work towards goals

Where is the “acceptable” line for “rares” in this game. At this point the hairstyle in question, the minions from the 90 elpis maps, the DD mounts and the pagos rares are about the only items that retain real value in the economy. Is it really such a bad thing to have these sorts of rare items that act as wealth holders and goal drivers. I understand the problem of people saying customisation is so limited that a hairstyle shouldn’t be an example of this but there appears to be blowback against the entire concept of an item you may want being worth more than you yourself are willing to pay for it. If this rule extends to all why do we even have an economy

For example for me there is nothing in this game that functions like a party hat, there is no itemised long term goals that hold value. Due to this I almost never interact with the economy, isn’t that a bad thing?

[AllenThyl]

I\\'ve been playing the game for three years to compete ShB in time for EW. Played everyday then and since until unsubbed about two months ago. Resubbed a month ago.

But I dint do Reddit and stuff not interested. I just play the game in front of me do the things I enjoy. Dint do the things I dint. I like custom deliveries. I dint like having to go off and gather for a different item each day. It actually takes quite a while, because I\\'m also getting interrupted for rouls. I need a some node I keep missing or something. I don\\'t enjoy gathering or crafting, so I do it while I\\'m writing other stuff. That means I usually get to the end of a day and ask the stuff I\\'ve gathered is useless. So I dint do the GC crafted deliveries before you can\\'t \\'for then in\\' progress not completed that day is wasted. Then as for leves and collectibles, again by the time I\\'ve gathered stuff custom deliveries had leveled me up and the XP isn\\'t worth it.

End of the day, playing the casual roul game doesn\\'t get you \\'nearly\\' enough Gil for raid gear. (I do all the rouls except MSQ)
Playing the casual game doesn\\'t get you raid gear in time.
I dint enjoy gathering and crafting. And I\\'m not doing it.
I don\\'t mind farming Gil but it\\'s needs to be through playing the battle game and a mix of battle content. And it had to be compatible with not using add-ons to tell you what did is valuable (so maps is out. Also maps is tedious. Iits not challenging and it\\'s only the same recent expansion maps that net much. Also you can\\'t just queue maps),

Your right Im incompetent. But I\\'ve played the game every day for 4 years several hours a day and the circles I move in are sprouts, who knows even less than me.
The whole business of tome grear in Endwalker was a total shock you play for three years.. then... what is all this coin business? And gear enhancing? I didn\\'t do the first alliance for 9 months because I didn\\'t think it mattered. Same for normals. I didn\\'t realise is was how you were supposed to gear. Gear = tomes. Like for the past Fing 3 years.
I dint do Reddit. Everyone I know is sprouts.

Hey it\\'s either with changing or it\\'s not. If it doesn\\'t work for me, I dint have to play.

As the others have said, you suffer the consequences of your self-imposed purity test. And that purity has nothing to do with mods. You have maneuvered yourself into such a deep hole, that only a GM directly increasing your gil account and giving you equipment via console commands could make a difference. My man, allow me to say this with all empathy, I really do wish you the absolute best on journey.

[Khryseis_Astra]

I understand the problem of people saying customisation is so limited that a hairstyle shouldn’t be an example of this but there appears to be blowback against the entire concept of an item you may want being worth more than you yourself are willing to pay for it. If this rule extends to all why do we even have an economy

It’s not just “more than you’re willing to pay,” but also a supply that will never meet the demand scenario. For something like a hairstyle, when we get those so rarely, the disappointment is understandable. The other stuff mentioned was more along the lines of examples of where the prices increased over time, and why that happened.

I want the gear, so I’m trying for it. It’s 6 clears for a full set, but 5 for me because I don’t like the gloves. lol I don’t know if I’ll have the patience to endure the full grind for either of the mounts, let alone the hairstyle, if I don’t get lucky on bonuses. But there’s also the fear that if I don’t get it done soon enough, it will be near impossible to get anything from it. And most of the gil earning goes on pause when you’re spending 6 hours a night in PF! This isn’t something people are likely to farm, just given how hard it is to get 24 random people to coordinate. Unless they make it unsyncable at some point down the road.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

It’s not just “more than you’re willing to pay,” but also a supply that will never meet the demand scenario. For something like a hairstyle, when we get those so rarely, the disappointment is understandable. The other stuff mentioned was more along the lines of examples of where the prices increased over time, and why that happened.

I want the gear, so I’m trying for it. It’s 6 clears for a full set, but 5 for me because I don’t like the gloves. lol I don’t know if I’ll have the patience to endure the full grind for either of the mounts, let alone the hairstyle, if I don’t get lucky on bonuses. But there’s also the fear that if I don’t get it done soon enough, it will be near impossible to get anything from it. And most of the gil earning goes on pause when you’re spending 6 hours a night in PF! This isn’t something people are likely to farm, just given how hard it is to get 24 random people to coordinate. Unless they make it unsyncable at some point down the road.

I don't think a lot of ppl have the patience for the grind that this fight demands. If you don't include the bonus(since there are very limited and will go away over time) you looking at 46 clears for the hair, 50 clears for one of the mounts, and I can't remember how many clears for the other mount, and god you knows how many clears it could take someone to get the minion since you can't buy it from the vendor and it's a rare drop. This fight is asking ppl to pretty much clear it over 50 times to get everything(if they were really unlucky on rolls which can happen). On top of that, the fight requires 3x as many ppl than normal content and is savage level of hard.

[Kaurhz]

Obviously my opinions aren’t very popular here but let me ask you all a legit question about the fear of the rising cost of the hairstyle

What is so bad about rare items driving the economy around?

Think about it, we have an entire game economy that’s basically there for nothing more than the convenience of skipping some elements of savage prep and not much else. If crafted gear could be bought with tomestones you could functionally delete the entire player economy considering it just sorta exists. Compare this to something like say…….RuneScape where the amount of gold you have and your ability to obtain it consistently is directly tied to your power in the game and leads to the ability to accumulate rare items and work towards goals

Where is the “acceptable” line for “rares” in this game. At this point the hairstyle in question, the minions from the 90 elpis maps, the DD mounts and the pagos rares are about the only items that retain real value in the economy. Is it really such a bad thing to have these sorts of rare items that act as wealth holders and goal drivers. I understand the problem of people saying customisation is so limited that a hairstyle shouldn’t be an example of this but there appears to be blowback against the entire concept of an item you may want being worth more than you yourself are willing to pay for it. If this rule extends to all why do we even have an economy

For example for me there is nothing in this game that functions like a party hat, there is no itemised long term goals that hold value. Due to this I almost never interact with the economy, isn’t that a bad thing?

As this is actually a good question I'll bite. It's not necessarily an item inherently being rare to help drive the economy that is the issue. This is in fact healthy to circulate Gil around between players, but it's mostly stemming from how well received it will be long term (Chaotic), and mainly the type of item that it is. It's for character appearance in a game that is already frankly disappointing in character appearance customization. Hairstyles are the most distinctive feature, really, due to everything else bogging it down. In a normal game with fully functioning customization, you may never meet someone who looks exactly like you, yet I have bumped into a good 5-8, and it isn't because we have the exact same taste, but rather because the customization is utter crap.

You already partly clearly understand the issue with customization, so you would understand that people would take issue with that specifically. We can notice how hardly anyone is complaining about the tradeable minion or mount.

people aren't exactly going to be chuffed or over the moon when you start locking character customization behind content that has fairly well founded concerns around long-term playability. - and these concerns were already raised and mentioned before we even knew what the loot table of Cloud looked like.

Having long-term goal drivers is fine, but content in this game honestly doesn't really function in the same way it does on Runescape, for example. So how people consume content here and how it is consumed in Runescape are different. Runescape has a way of progression in their game which favors long-term survivability of content. FFXIV doesn't have this, at least not nearly half as much, about the only thing that even comes close to scratching the surface is Ultimates which are timeless content. near enough Everything in Runescape is driven by economy, inc., and a lot of this is also supported by the fact that a lot of the content in Runescape you can engage with solo if you so wish, which aids a metric tonne of support for an economy driven game, and a game with long-term goals.

For something like Runescape to even fractionally work in XIV, it would need to be a full commitment, and not a half-baked commitment stemming from petrification of V&C reward feedback, and if they went that far it wouldn't just be casual players speaking exclusively on cosmetic items. Could you imagine if they turned around and made your Ultimate weapon or Savage gear on a 1/150 drop rate? Like, if I want to go kill General Graardor to get a Bandos Chestplate then I can go ahead and do that with T65-T70 gear solo. I don't have to wait for 23 other players.

TL;DR Runescape has systems in the game that supports nearly everything it does, it was a game literally built that way, XIV was not. If XIV were build that way, and if it had the same systems as a game like Runescape then it would be fair game. You wouldn't see half as many people raising concerns if you could go ahead and bombard Cloud of Darkness as 8 people, let alone solo like most Runescape bosses permit.

[Gurgeh]

The way I see it, it's less about being "entitled" and more about being "impatient."

Gotta do weeklies within 24 hours of the reset. Gotta do content within 24 hours of the patch dropping. Everyone's gotta be the flower smelling champion. And then people complain that there's nothing to do, that everything's dead. Pity the poor souls who join in ShB or EW, and might actually want to spend time working through what the previous expansions had to offer, rather than having to drop everything to play the current end-game before the crowds move on.

But I digress. If the chaotic alliance raid can be run with unrestricted parties in future expansions, then… the choice is simple — or, well, ought to be simple: put the work/gil in now, and get the rewards now; or wait until the content becomes easier, and get the rewards then.

100% agree.
Off topic for this thread, but in the mean time where is my challenging content, that I can prog, or even just get better at, without having to join discords, or deal PFs that would sooner abandon than talk to someone or pull even a third time. (You need to give me some progression reason for reapeating it. That has the same rate of guaranteed return as normal rouls or an easy unreal. I dont gamble for drop rates. 1 recoloured mount for 3-400 pulls isn't nearly enough. Not for me. Not when I can just wait 4 years and blitz it in 2 evenings or less. Now.. Exclude unsynced from getting drops or totems, then I might start doing them. But that's definitely going to upset a lot of people. You don't get many mounts for MSQ casual)

[Voidmage]

Obviously my opinions aren’t very popular here but let me ask you all a legit question about the fear of the rising cost of the hairstyle

What is so bad about rare items driving the economy around?

Think about it, we have an entire game economy that’s basically there for nothing more than the convenience of skipping some elements of savage prep and not much else. If crafted gear could be bought with tomestones you could functionally delete the entire player economy considering it just sorta exists. Compare this to something like say…….RuneScape where the amount of gold you have and your ability to obtain it consistently is directly tied to your power in the game and leads to the ability to accumulate rare items and work towards goals

Where is the “acceptable” line for “rares” in this game. At this point the hairstyle in question, the minions from the 90 elpis maps, the DD mounts and the pagos rares are about the only items that retain real value in the economy. Is it really such a bad thing to have these sorts of rare items that act as wealth holders and goal drivers. I understand the problem of people saying customisation is so limited that a hairstyle shouldn’t be an example of this but there appears to be blowback against the entire concept of an item you may want being worth more than you yourself are willing to pay for it. If this rule extends to all why do we even have an economy

For example for me there is nothing in this game that functions like a party hat, there is no itemised long term goals that hold value. Due to this I almost never interact with the economy, isn’t that a bad thing?

The problem is imo more that we already know that the cost of it will rise to huge levels because the whole design of the content and its reward structure already screams "do it now or the new time bonus and with that the content itself will die out".
Economy be damned. If you are not a crafter who sells regularily most people won't amass tens to hundreds of millions of gil.
People with that much money are the rarity and not the majority in this game.

The other problem is that they already got huge backlash for locking hairstyles in the past behind for example DR and that was just normal content.
Instead of learning and listening they just do an even worse job now.

And lastly people already said that the problem is also that unlike mounts we get hairstyles so damn rarely and have so little that it's just "unfair" to make it an raider exclusive while ALSO giving them all the content lately.

[shigaisen]

The disdain for "casuals' always amuses me because the success of FFXIV is because of us - period. Without us logging in, enjoying our houses, GPOSING, running venues, and contributing our sub, you extreme raiders would have NADA, ZERO, ZILCH. And now? With the anemic casual content, and stuff we'd love to do being pushed back further into later patches, and SE going all in on hardcore content for the 2% of the game population, we are starting to not care and bounce. Let's see how long 14 sustains when the playerbase you so loathe, all says...you know what? We're done.

What's keeping you from leaving now? What's keeping every other person that complained like this in the past from leaving? Put your money where your mouth is. Why should Square care about your complaints if you're just going to stay subbed anyway?

[IOwn92FCHouses]

The disdain for "casuals' always amuses me because the success of FFXIV is because of us - period. Without us logging in, enjoying our houses, GPOSING, running venues, and contributing our sub, you extreme raiders would have NADA, ZERO, ZILCH. And now? With the anemic casual content, and stuff we'd love to do being pushed back further into later patches, and SE going all in on hardcore content for the 2% of the game population, we are starting to not care and bounce. Let's see how long 14 sustains when the playerbase you so loathe, all says...you know what? We're done.

No the success of the game rests entirely on people like me that supported the game back in the 1.x days. That offered feedback, support, and loyalty to show that a rebuild would be successful.

All you casuals do is get carried by me through your normal content. I can personally guatentee that I've put more money into this game than you have.

Have a seat. I'm the target audience at the moment. I'll help you not take 30 minutes to clear the latest dungeon right after I clear the latest savage-level content Square has released for me.

See? Pretty easy to sound like a cringy badass, huh? But something tells me you weren't pretending or using hyperbole. That you actually believe the us vs them is player vs player and not player vs company.