should 8.0 cut the harder content back in exchange for-

[Jeeqbit]

I do want to add that, in terms of raids, high-end raiders are good. If they want more then that's crazy. There was a time I used to see them asking for more, before we had ultimates. But now they have extreme, savage, ultimate, unreal, criterion, content like DRS and Chaos Raids and I see a fair share of them also taking on deep dungeons solo.

I don't think they should actually cut down on any of that, and I think their intention is to continue that while making content for other types of players (like Field Operations) and addressing things like the battle system and jobs. It's just that the way in which they are addressing these issues is not the way people on these forums want:
- The "midcore content" will be in 7.25
- The battles being improved is happening right now, but probably isn't satisfying a lot of forum regulars, because nothing ever does.
- The job uniqueness and formula will be looked at in 8.0, but again, it probably won't satisfy a lot of forum regulars. There ain't no way this place will become full of positivity whatever their plans.

[Rikizza]

Yup definintely. Ultimates are for a very small player group. Add more stuff everyone can enjoy.

[Larirawiel]

Ultimates are extremely easy to make because you can recycle 99% of the existing content for them. I highly doubt, that cutting off some difficult content will have any effect on casual content.



Cheers

[ovIm]

should 8.0 cut the harder content back in exchange for more robust casual and midcore content?

The main reason most of this games content is "room with boss" with a very certain difficulty is because those things are cheap to make compared to others. Meaning, even if we were to cut Savage Raid Content off, midcore/casual players may not have a gain from that because that freed developer budget is comparatively low.
(And, as someone who quit Savage in 6.0, I think the cadence of Savage Level fights in this game is at least okay. Certainly better than other avenues.)


Still, the things you propose are not exactly gameplay content, and a variety of that is definitely lacking in FFXIV first and foremost. What this game needs is an increase in developer amount, time and budget for new, unorganized, drop-in group battle content. We spent 100 Levels unlocking skills, let people use them.

(It's still unbelievable that we did not get a Field Operations instance in 6.x because that budget went into Island Sanctuary. Why does FFXIV even have such a limited budget when its clearly carrying the company?)

ETA: As for the question, no, I don't think players should be okay with Square Enix cutting content. It should be an "and", not an "or".

[Kaurhz]

Setting aside the needless meta-discussion around what is casual content and what is midcore content. I think most people whom have played the game long enough know what is being referenced here.

Now to answer the question, no I don't think they do. E.g., Ultimate content is very lightweight development content, so even if they did strip this away from the game you would be lucky to even get a hard mode dungeon out of it. Which between the two, Ultimate content is much healthier, and I say this as a casual, because it still gives players a long-term goal. Hard mode dungeons are something you do once, then do it on auto-pilot as part of roulettes. It's not a case that dropping ultimate content would immediately mean we could suddenly get exploratory content, or repeatable equivalent of it in 7.15, as opposed to 7.25.

Their biggest issue with the game is the developers strongly feel that any given player should be able to do what they want at any given time without consequent whatsoever, and subsequently in the same expansion. Relics should be released sooner, even if they cannot release the core content apart of it, e.g., shouldn't need to wait until exploratory equivalent before getting relics. Relics should be out much earlier than they are, and they can quite as easily adapt them to use existing content from that expansion, e.g., complete 1 of each of the levelling dungeons from this expansion, complete a certain trial, or do certain FATEs and kill certain monsters. A lightweight version of the books from Zodiac. Heck, at this point even a small tomestone grind in 7.15 would be a gigantic upgrade.

For matters like this, as per what OvIm says, we shouldn't be settling on "or" at this late into the game, especially when it comes to making sure everyone has sufficient content to actually engage with. Now, when it comes to releasing brand-new content types, that much is a given, but when it comes to starving an entire segment (and no small segment by any means), then we should not be settling for casual/midcore content OR hardcore content. It should be both types being fulfilled

[Kandraxx]

The problem is not the high end content but player interaction being so forced, unnatural and super cringe in FFXIV. First, if I play WoW, I can reasonably assume that everyone is in for the gameplay, at least to varying degrees of seriousness. It doesn't matter, everyone wants to get better at playing and have better gear. That assumption can't be made here.

That's why the market for the piloted clears is so huge on here.

There's also no way to tell if someone is good or not, just because of how the game works with memorization over execution. You can have a legend title because you spent 100 hours learning 1 fight, but still die to a telegraph in Bozja.

So most people don't even bother.

[Jangles]

Midcore will never work because no one can agree on what midcore is. My proof of that? I think savage is midcore content, because I don't think I'm all that good relatively speaking, yet I can get through it.



People say exploration content is midcore, yet to me there's nothing more casual that that lol.

People keep saying the word "midcore midcore!" but what they actually mean is long term content like exploratory content or relic weapon grinds, or anything else they might add that is an ongoing grind. The difficulty of the content isn't really what people mean when they say "midcore". Just stuff you can go into with other people or solo without much preperation and makes you grind to complete it.

[Supersnow845]

People keep saying the word "midcore midcore!" but what they actually mean is long term content like exploratory content or relic weapon grinds, or anything else they might add that is an ongoing grind. The difficulty of the content isn't really what people mean when they say "midcore". Just stuff you can go into with other people or solo without much preperation and makes you grind to complete it.

No i definitely think that difficulty plays into it

People want content they can’t roll over in 10 seconds or sit dead on the floor while the tanks solo the trivial amount of damage they take but they also don’t want it to require PF to deal with

So something like red comet or honestly most of the CE’s in Bozja. You ARE going to die at least once trying to get that down, but you don’t have to PF it to make it work

[Kohashi]

In exchange for more robust casual and midcore content? a revamp of jobs and a revamp of the character creation, focus in on that much needed TLC of the gold saucer, improve gearing methods and work to making gear obsolete less often. Right now 70% of this games content is for casual to high end raiders, but the Rp'er in this game, or the limsa chatter gets absolutely nothing. and that's 80% of the playerbase at the end of the day!

would it not be better to put their needs first? and improve some of the lacking unfinished and basically undeveloped systems in the game..? and yes improving msq is part of all of this too

would you be in favour of 1 ultimate and less savages/exes/criterions/Chaotics if it meant more QOL in the foundations of the game? perhaps adding more things into it to discourage people from modding it

- just an edit here, this wouldnt be a forever thing. but 8.0 has a lot of work cut out for itself, and im not sure they have enough staff to design all this content, have it be high quality and improve the many plaguing issues with the game right now

AAAH yes... how to balance things, exclude one group for the other. That's how balance is always achieved..by excluding..


The people that "chat" in Limsa are usually not into things S.E can ever add at any point in the game. Just be glad they don't take an aggressive stance towards it.

[sindriiisgaming]

AAAH yes... how to balance things, exclude one group for the other. That's how balance is always achieved..by excluding..


The people that "chat" in Limsa are usually not into things S.E can ever add at any point in the game. Just be glad they don't take an aggressive stance towards it.

Rn we exclude the casual to favour the raider. The balance is still not there. There is not enough midcore or softer content. The rpers don't get into it bwvause there is no ladder to climb and they're shut down by the catered to toxic raiders who want to gatekeep their own experiences In pf