should 8.0 cut the harder content back in exchange for-

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Midcore will never work because no one can agree on what midcore is. My proof of that? I think savage is midcore content, because I don't think I'm all that good relatively speaking, yet I can get through it.



People say exploration content is midcore, yet to me there's nothing more casual that that lol.

[Rueby]

Midcore will never work because no one can agree on what midcore is. My proof of that? I think savage is midcore content, because I don't think I'm all that good relatively speaking, yet I can get through it.



People say exploration content is midcore, yet to me there's nothing more casual that that lol.

I thought midcore is like extremes and what not? And savage sorta straddles the inbetween of extremes/ultimates?

[XtremePrime]

I thought midcore is like extremes and what not? And savage sorta straddles the inbetween of extremes/ultimates?

If Ex is considered midcore, then gosh I'm such a bad player.

[Jeeqbit]

Midcore will never work because no one can agree on what midcore is.

I think most people tend to agree that Bozja was about right. It didn't really matter who you were. You could participate in Castrum Lacus Litore, Delubrum Reginae and Dalriada, and all of the Critical Engagements. They weren't so difficult that people had trouble participating or clearing them. But they were difficult enough that there were bodies everywhere, that everyone wiped sometimes (actual prospect of failure? in this game?) and that the more confident 8 players would handle the more delicate mechanics that could wipe the raid if failed. In a similar way, Eureka NMs used to leave bodies everywhere in many cases, but players would overcome them and it was fun because of that. Your goal was (hopefully) to be the minority of players that didn't die.

However, it is true that the most ultra casual players that only do MSQ ocasionally actually believe dungeons are hard. The kind of players that think they need to spam cure or adlo, for example, because the only thing that could underpin that is a belief that they are hard enough to warrant it. So to an extent, not everyone will agree, you're right.

I think savage is midcore content, because I don't think I'm all that good relatively speaking, yet I can get through it.

While the first floors can be, the difficulty usually gets steep to a point where you really don't want to deal with PF and if you don't want to deal with PF, then getting a static together and keeping it together and coordinating all of you being there at the same time can be a hurdle for a lot of people.

Personally, I think Extremes are midcore and in fact a lot of people will do exclusively extremes due to that, but a percentage of the playerbase will just never touch anything labeled "High-End" regardless of its actual difficulty. What made Field Operations work was not labeling them as such or requiring them to join a party they could be kicked from over performance, whilst still making them leave bodies everywhere.

[Supersnow845]

Midcore will never work because no one can agree on what midcore is. My proof of that? I think savage is midcore content, because I don't think I'm all that good relatively speaking, yet I can get through it.



People say exploration content is midcore, yet to me there's nothing more casual that that lol.

I don’t even agree with OP but statements like this are pointless, we know what people are referring to when they say “midcore” content that’s lacking in the game

Saying “acshooly sweaty day 2 ultimate prog is casual content” doesn’t change the reality that’s it’s easy to point out exactly where the gap meant by midcore content is (the BA range). If you wanna call that super ultra mega casual then it doesn’t change the reality of the situation

[Jangles]

Midcore will never work because no one can agree on what midcore is. My proof of that? I think savage is midcore content, because I don't think I'm all that good relatively speaking, yet I can get through it.



People say exploration content is midcore, yet to me there's nothing more casual that that lol.

People keep saying the word "midcore midcore!" but what they actually mean is long term content like exploratory content or relic weapon grinds, or anything else they might add that is an ongoing grind. The difficulty of the content isn't really what people mean when they say "midcore". Just stuff you can go into with other people or solo without much preperation and makes you grind to complete it.

[Supersnow845]

People keep saying the word "midcore midcore!" but what they actually mean is long term content like exploratory content or relic weapon grinds, or anything else they might add that is an ongoing grind. The difficulty of the content isn't really what people mean when they say "midcore". Just stuff you can go into with other people or solo without much preperation and makes you grind to complete it.

No i definitely think that difficulty plays into it

People want content they can’t roll over in 10 seconds or sit dead on the floor while the tanks solo the trivial amount of damage they take but they also don’t want it to require PF to deal with

So something like red comet or honestly most of the CE’s in Bozja. You ARE going to die at least once trying to get that down, but you don’t have to PF it to make it work

[Tint]

Midcore will never work because no one can agree on what midcore is. My proof of that? I think savage is midcore content, because I don't think I'm all that good relatively speaking, yet I can get through it.



People say exploration content is midcore, yet to me there's nothing more casual that that lol.

Midcore does not exist. There is only content which you can clear without communication in a random party (casual) and content which needs communication and is usually tackled with a party finder group or static (hardcore).

There is no "a bit of communication", it is like an on / off switch.

The raids within Bozja were the closest we ever had to that, but I knew people who panicked at the thought of having to call out if they would go up or down or which prisoner they would going to rescue - and I find it uncomfortable as well.

WHy can't we have both?

Very good question. If they would just shuffle rewards around and give us an ARR / HW style relic quest they could make much better use out of the casual content which is already there. We don't actually need more content, just content which is not dead on arrival.

[CNitsah]

Midcore will never work because no one can agree on what midcore is. My proof of that? I think savage is midcore content, because I don't think I'm all that good relatively speaking, yet I can get through it.



People say exploration content is midcore, yet to me there's nothing more casual that that lol.

It's because you let hardcore players define what midcore is. They tend to paint midcore content as a difficulty, when most the time, it's not. That's why they paint exploratory zones as casuals things. It sure is entry difficulty, but most casuals won't touch that content with stick. If they do, there is a possibility they entered the midcore players zone, despite thinking of themselves as casual. I like to use the example of Zepla wanting to do a video about how EW was bad for casuals, thinking she belonged there since she stopped raiding just to realise while talking with actual casuals how she knew nothing about being casual (which was obvious to everyone but her, honestly). The post above mine is another example of that deep dungeon and relics are not casual content, despite being simple enough.

Midcore players are people that will engage with most content, have a a lot of playtime, but won't engage in high difficulty content or content that will require organisation and block one day a week to raid. it's a really large category. More often than not, midcore players won't engage in extremes and higher content when it asks for scheldule, but will run them if they have a team of friends to do it.

So yeah, letting hardcore players define what are midcore and casual players doesn't seem right, because they always tell you it's about difficulty. It's not. Extreme is only midcore content depending how you engage with it. If you have static and scheldule one or two evenings a week to run it, you're in the hardcore player area, despite the difficulty being mid. Difficulty is only one part of the equation. How easy it is to engage with it also plays a big part in it. Basically, if you can't just enter the content and run it, it might not be midcore. You could argue that at this point Eureka Orthos kinda entered the hardcore player content, given how difficult it is to get a team: only the most dedicated players will run it : the hardcore players.

To me one of the biggest FFXIV team and Community is their limited ability to think content with other criteria than the difficulty, when how easy it's accessible (low entry barrier and no need to scheldule it), how replayable it is and how much shelf life it has matter as much, if not more.

I see people saying this expansion focus on midcore players, but I strongly disagree. As a midcore player myself (and a mmo player), I'm bored to death, and cranking up some mechanics in dungeons is not answering to midcore players. Midcore players wants thing to do in the game.

It's not casual, midcore or hardcore content, it's content for casuals, midcore or hardcore players, and difficulty is only one part of defining that. Midcore content (it's an abuse of language, but let's roll with it) is, more often that not, easy difficulty. It just ask for more time and more engagement. That's the kind of content that was entirely removed from the game with EW, and is severely lacking right now. What I tend to call the mmo content.

[Kohashi]

It's because you let hardcore players define what midcore is. They tend to paint midcore content as a difficulty, when most the time, it's not. That's why they paint exploratory zones as casuals things. It sure is entry difficulty, but most casuals won't touch that content with stick. If they do, there is a possibility they entered the midcore players zone, despite thinking of themselves as casual. I like to use the example of Zepla wanting to do a video about how EW was bad for casuals, thinking she belonged there since she stopped raiding just to realise while talking with actual casuals how she knew nothing about being casual (which was obvious to everyone but her, honestly). The post above mine is another example of that deep dungeon and relics are not casual content, despite being simple enough.

Zepla was a hardcore raider, she also cleared DRS (last I watched her) while the fight was current, which is an achievement in itself. EW Asphodelos was casual, Abyssos was more hardcore mostly because of how front-loaded some of the fights were and how much the fights relied on everyone being consistent + p8s which was mad hard on release, and Anabaseios was dirt easy and also casual (except p10s which was a wall for PF cause god forbid they knew how to do bonds 3).

Just because you are terrible at the game doesn't mean there's something wrong with the content nor does it mean they have to cater to you specifically. Savage might not be low-end casual, those are Extremes but it is mid-core.

You rather sit in the forums crying about content being too hard but god forbid you invest the time in bettering yourself.