7.1 and Bards got nothing...

[Valence]

Bard songs - Press song button, done.
Steps - Has to play steps mini game, has to consider Flourish cool-down, dance partner considerations.
Pretty sure I said in both posts that I’m not really counting raid buffs because firstly they’re not exclusive to the job (in case you noticed everyone that’s not BLM/SAM/MCH has one), and they’re literally defined by being 120-second button presses that could very easily be automated because they require literally 0 input from the player. And even then , which job is the only job in the game that actually interacts with that ability? Oh yeah, Dancer lol. It’s mostly a performative interaction by making you press more than 1 button, but that’s still more than any other job had to think about their raid buff. I guess maybe Ninja too? Do they even still need to hit positionals for Trick Attack to apply?

Just because Dancer is at a 1/10 in terms of active support doesn’t somehow make it ok for Bard to be a 0. Dancer only having to use 1 brain cell isn’t really a justification for Bard to use 0.5 brain cells - they should both feel enjoyable and interesting to play in all aspects of the job.

But let’s go further.

Minne - Press the song button, done (Gee I’m beginning to see a pattern)
Curing Waltz - possible consideration of dance partner and personal positioning, isn’t reliant on party members actually healing within the time frame of the buff. Oh also half the cool-down of Minne despite arguably offering the same healing.

Paean - Press a song button, done. Who’d have thought?! I guess you can say you have to look at the party list to see who has an ailment, but most people don’t even bother doing that anyway (and nobody cares about removable debuffs apparently anyway. Oh yeah, and a 45 second cool-down because fuck Bards I guess?
Improvisation - These are in no way functional equivalents but it’s the only support skill that’s not a rais buff left. Positioning of both self and accounting for party members needs to be considered. You could argue managing stacks too but nobody is going to channel longer than an ogcd outside of downtime anyway so that’s probably a moot point.

If you’re really still going to deny that Bard and Dancer function differently on how they perform their support role, I really don’t know what to say. Just because said role is already paper thin doesn’t mean those differences don’t exist.

Alright, I see your point better. Essentially you say something is "passive" when there is one button press on cooldown, versus something a bit more active when there is 4 button presses on cooldown, if I follow correctly. That's... more involved for sure, but since later you bring up the thought process behind and the considerations, BRD songs do actually have a lot more consideration process behind thier use than using Steps on cd. Songs can be cut, extended, clipped, to adjust to different fight sequences, which steps don't really objectively do much if at all. Moving or altering songs also comes with consequences on gauge generation, apex usage if you get out of the 2min pattern, and repertoires and each benefit they all bring in terms of damage.

You seem to think that I defend the utterly poor state of mechanically brainless execution that all jobs in XIV are left into, but believe me that like you I do wish we had actual agency and choices that matter beyond stupid excel spreadsheet optimization to adjust to oh no, another boss downtime in a 99% scripted encounter anyway.

I never denied that BRD and DNC do work differently at a mechanical baseline level, but that doesn't say much, does it? All of their buffs, whether it's one or the other, could just be macroed, whether one takes 4 lines and the other only 1. This also doesn't still make DNC more support oriented than BRD, it just makes the amount of inputs in button press required higher, but when it comes to the amount of agency and choice? Songs have more than steps, but as you say, waltz and improv have more than minne.

The differences make me speechless really.

Furthermore, by your logic Ninjas, Dragoons, Pictomancers, Summoners, Red Mages, Reapers, Monks, Astrologian, Scholar…are all providing support that is practically identical to what Dancer and Bard can do, because they have an automatic button press every 120s to raise party damage?

Yes. The difference is just in numbers.

Things they could do to make Bard more active?
- 1.5 cast on songs like they were originally, would cause massive backlash because precious APM
- Button press musical notes mini game, but that’s just copy+paste from Dancer. Technically more APM if they’re 1.5s gcds or whatever like steps. Win?!
- MP costs and/or removed/reduced cooldowns.
- Higher potency but single target buffs that actually require any kind of conscious thought, ideally gcd though that’s practically impossible in current design
- Interaction between dps and support, i.e mp costs on songs but certain actions give mp restoration.
- Song exclusivity and rotational choice. I.E ‘do I want to sing Ballad for MP or Requiem for damage or whatever’ (please god someone don’t come at me with the ‘but it’ll always just be the damage song!!!!’, it’s not a literal example)
- Warden’s Paean updated to at least be in line with the actual spell it’s supposed to reflect lol. Esuna is now instant cast, gcd, has no MP cost…yet somehow Bards are only allowed to do it every 45 seconds? Why? Because ‘you’re not a healer’. Neither are Red Mages or Summoners yet they’re allowed to have healing/recovery support coming out of their ass lol

I too wish we could go back to having short recasts on most parts of a job's toolkit, and gate their use instead behind resources, and/or even better, actual choices to use them when it makes sense to use them. Alas, this isn't the direction the devs have chosen because we're playing an action DDR scripted game where everything has to follow a script to a T. And when it doesn't by doing non standard, they'll make damn sure you do anyway.

I too wish we had MP being relevant again.

I too wish we had songs being played for specific goals in mind.