There is no need for this much of spells for healers

[Valence]

Removing oGCDs would increase healing requirements, just saying.

I do agree, but other avenues that could be considered is making each oGCD more niche and specific on purpose and not just a button you can press whenever damage happens and it doesn't matter much which. Adding a steep MP cost to them could also make people consider more carefully when to use them instead of spamming them.

Even on the front of GCD heals, there was a reason behind Medica 1 not turning into Medica 2 for example, being 1) it costed a lot less MP and 2) was more efficient instant healing, and since you had little AoE OGCDs to heal anyway, you'd end up having a Medica 2 already running behind and still need to cast Medica on top, so the 1 made perfect sense.

All of this is literally indicative of everything that's been sanded down and made meaningless on healer kits:

1) oGCD bloat rendering GCD heals useless
2) oGCD heals losing their specific niches and becoming interchangeable
3) MP becoming irrelevant in the choice of the tools used to heal

[Supersnow845]

I do agree, but other avenues that could be considered is making each oGCD more niche and specific on purpose and not just a button you can press whenever damage happens and it doesn't matter much which. Adding a steep MP cost to them could also make people consider more carefully when to use them instead of spamming them.

SCH is the best example of a healer who’s kit is designed around every oGCD only really having one functional niche that all do different things and may conflict with each other and while SCH’s always had its diehard fanbase (including me) it’s safe to say that SCH’s design isn’t widely popular even with people who agree that there is something deeply wrong with healers

I like the ideas but I also kinda consider it SCH’s niche design

[Nero-Voidstails]

I just think healers need a rework to fight the game style they wanted them to have not just well what we have now

[ForsakenRoe]

I'll just quote Forsaken's:

Ah that old chestnut again

IIRC, my own napkin math from back then had the increase required, to burden a SCH into using even a single extra GCD heal (eg a Succor), as something like 'a raidwide would have to hit the party for 20k, once per 15sec'. And that was back then, when I guess Tender Valley was the endgame content? And IIRC that maths was before factoring in mitigation. It's an absolutely crazy amount of damage that we need to be taking, just to pressure us into burning up all of the OGCDs we have access to nowadays

The irony in all of it is, a single Medica 3 would easily heal for that much, and far more (mine tick for about 10k per tick), so even if we were addressing the damage via GCDs we're grossly overpowered

[Neoyoshi]

As an outsider looking in- Spells just needs more trimming down; and perhaps let some of these spells become combo-spells (the lesser needed ones) or better yet, turn some of them into passives.

I don't know how Spell-casters feel about that in a broader sense, but whenever i get glimpses of a friends or FC members spell bar; i tend to vomit a bit, because it's super absurd to have that many spells buttons on the UI screen.
(it reminds me of old school Perfect World where a player had 38 to 43 spells to manage.)

[IDontPetLalas]

As an outsider looking in- Spells just needs more trimming down; and perhaps let some of these spells become combo-spells (the lesser needed ones) or better yet, turn some of them into passives.

I don't know how Spell-casters feel about that in a broader sense, but whenever i get glimpses of a friends or FC members spell bar; i tend to vomit a bit, because it's super absurd to have that many spells buttons on the UI screen.
(it reminds me of old school Perfect World where a player had 38 to 43 spells to manage.)

No thanks, I don't need to have combos, it isn't "absurd" for me to have around 30+ buttons necessarily, if those buttons each have their uses- which, in the case of FFXIV, I would agree that several skills and/or spells could be replaced by more useful / distinctive skills or spells.

Mind you, we have less skills in PvP- that was quite well done, although a couple were added- that's still quite a few less than in PvE- however given that each healer job managed to do so while keeping a unique flavour, i found it interesting. I was still happy when they added some skills, and if the PvP rework adds I few more I'd be even happier.

[Supersnow845]

I don’t mind combos on a job like PCT where the job is explicitly designed around the filler being………filler because it’s just what you are doing when you are doing nothing else

But when the filler is “meaningful” then no, no combos

[GrimGale]

I'd happily trade away DoTs on healers for meaningful interactions between offensive abilities. DoTs are fine as a mechanic in themselves, at least for a single job, to make it stand out from the rest. But when the four healers have exactly the same tools, you could easily find some variety between them by switching out the DoT spell for something different.

I'd argue the charm of FFXIV healing is the balance between healing efficiently and finding moments to DPS. The skill and challenge is in doing both effectively. In order to be better at healing you have to know where to push DPS and where to actually heal. It forces you to make efficient use of your oGCD skills. And viceversa, upkeeping DPS forces you to understand your healing skills as to know their timing and their effects.
Each side enhances the other as you can't do both at the same time (normally).

The issue is, with only so few dps spells and so little interactivity, the mental routine end up defaulting to a single button.
Do I weave an oGCD? Glare. Do I use cure? Glare. Do I move then heal? Glare.
It's simple but really skewed.
Healers don't really need new buttons, just internal mechanics that allow for that mental routine to vary a bit.

You could have Dia proc Glare IV. You could have Dosis casts grant you addersting and Toxikon have a slightly higher potency than Dosis. You could have Ruin II be used for something more than the occasional mobility that SCH doesn't really need (Not with 1.5s Broils.) You could have some interesting gameplay around AST cards.

[Aravell]

As an outsider looking in- Spells just needs more trimming down; and perhaps let some of these spells become combo-spells (the lesser needed ones) or better yet, turn some of them into passives.

I don't know how Spell-casters feel about that in a broader sense, but whenever i get glimpses of a friends or FC members spell bar; i tend to vomit a bit, because it's super absurd to have that many spells buttons on the UI screen.
(it reminds me of old school Perfect World where a player had 38 to 43 spells to manage.)

No, there's no trimming down needed. Casters are very different from melee after all. While melee jobs tend to focus on combos and branching actions to get you thinking, caster gameplay tends to be more methodical and much lower APM.

Instead of pruning spells and adding combos, I'd much rather see each of the spells we do have be made more meaningful so planning is useful and our choices matter. That would create a much more satisfying caster gameplay loop rather than forcing a streamlined path of spell usage via combos.

[Carighan]

No, there's no trimming down needed. Casters are very different from melee after all. While melee jobs tend to focus on combos and branching actions to get you thinking, caster gameplay tends to be more methodical and much lower APM.

Instead of pruning spells and adding combos, I'd much rather see each of the spells we do have be made more meaningful so planning is useful and our choices matter. That would create a much more satisfying caster gameplay loop rather than forcing a streamlined path of spell usage via combos.

You are essentially agreeing with the person you replied to, btw. If spells were individuall more meaningful, we could accomplish more than enough with less, and hence a solid part of the spammy arsenal of never-actually-needed spells could be pruned. One begets the other, basically.