Disappointed With XIV Direction

[xbahax92]

They were eagerly working toward the goal of gaining new players, but are slowly losing the veterans who built the very foundation of the game. Sad.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

They were eagerly working toward the goal of gaining new players, but are slowly losing the veterans who built the very foundation of the game. Sad.

Anecdotally speaking, I don’t think they could keep some new players around for long either.

I tried to invite my 6-7 group of IRL friends to play together after months of contemplating only to regret it right after because it was exactly as I worried: they found the gameplay too braindead boring & said “If the game can’t keep me occupied for their first few chapters/episodes, I think they’re lost. First impression is important. Spending first 60 levels out of 90 total levels with barebone kits is just plain garbage tier of a progression” to me in VC.

:shrug: I tried.

EDIT: Of course, months later free trial was expanded up to StB, but at that point it's already too late. The damage was done. To their eyes, FF14 is visual novel with boring gameplay so barebone some mobile games' gameplay wouldn't let them snooze or they'd get punished, thus keeping them engaged. Mind you that they also tried a lot of the contents within their own volitions. PotD, Ocean Fishing, synced EX Mount farming, synced Coils, doesn't skip CS, have most jobs leveled, and so on (as far as FT allows them to, I mostly just help them to stay partied & assist when they want it). And they still find it boring. So this isn't just some "ThEy'Re NoT mSq PlAyEr/ThEy HaVeN't PlAyEd MuCh YeT!!!"-cases.

[Garnix]

To their eyes, FF14 is visual novel with boring gameplay

Let's be honest though...
This is mostly what the game is...
If that's what they take away from the game after playing content such as PotD, Ocean Fishing, EX and Coils, their take-away is correct.
Having a kit with more buttons doesn't change that, as most of the fight design is about learning mechanics and maintaining uptime. The rotation is not the engaging part, as most people have them in muscle memory.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[...]Having a kit with more buttons doesn't change that, as most of the fight design is about learning mechanics and maintaining uptime. The rotation is not the engaging part, as most people have them in muscle memory.

So.... ARR/HW job kits functions similarly as today's? Is that it? :/

[Garnix]

So.... ARR/HW job kits functions similarly as today's? Is that it? :/

Not exactly, it had a bit more room for player skill expression. But ultimately, I am really doubting that this is what would make people "click" better with the game.
I agree with you all that job design should improve though, that's undeniable.
I am just very much doubting that this would change the early game experience much.
I think the fights design is much more linked to that experience than the job design.

[IDontPetLalas]

Not exactly, it had a bit more room for player skill expression. But ultimately, I am really doubting that this is what would make people "click" better with the game.
I agree with you all that job design should improve though, that's undeniable.
I am just very much doubting that this would change the early game experience much.
I think the fights design is much more linked to that experience than the job design.

Imagine if a game had a scale between 1-10 for both job design and fight design. Now, I will stick, for the moment to just normal and mid-core content - so , up to extreme, for PVE, also including PvP design .

I would give FFXIV a 3, maybe a 4 if I'm feeling particularly generous, on a given day, for job design. I would give fight design a 4.

Well, this may not relate exactly with your comment, but I'll try to explain what I like, I why DT is now less enjoyable for me:


For jobs: there is no/little skill expression- there is one *right* way to play each job, with no choice whatsoever, and that one way is supposed to fit all encounter difficulties and all content types/party sizes, party compositions. If you don't like that way- too bad. If the dev team makes a poor design choice- too bad- wait --- way too long

For fight design: do you like to dodge? would you like to dodge more and more stuff? yes, this is the peak of fight design! forget unique dungeon designs, or roles.. or puzzles. I never thought the day would come when I would miss the math boss, but it has come.

So in very early game experience - I would be looking at the job design more than the fight design, personally, however I would , as I progress expect more of the fight design to creep in and impact the player experience. Personally I would prefer more complexity in the jobs even if that means less complexity in the encounters, there are probably other people who would completely disagree.

[ovIm]

Let's be honest though...
This is mostly what the game is...
If that's what they take away from the game after playing content such as PotD, Ocean Fishing, EX and Coils, their take-away is correct.
Having a kit with more buttons doesn't change that, as most of the fight design is about learning mechanics and maintaining uptime. The rotation is not the engaging part, as most people have them in muscle memory.

Not quite, this is what Square Enix made the game after sanding down the jobs more and more. It used to be different in the past.

My favorite example of this is Viper. Remember Viper?
Viper at launch had an interesting "minigame" baked into their kit. Some attacks debuffed the enemy to take more damage. Applying that debuff was not difficult, but it required a bit of thought, as it could be applied by either a combo starter or a higher CD attack. And wouldn't you know it, a lot of people found that fun, engaging, and interesting.
However, someone at Square Enix thought this was too stressful to people, which resulted in Viper becoming defanged and brainless not even a month after it was released, because Square has no trust in the abilities of their playerbase, or confidence in their own product. (funny seeing how they do warp everything around PCT now though)

A fun class can elevate less fun fights. A boring class means that uninteresting, simple fights become a slog.

[Zakuyia]

Not quite, this is what Square Enix made the game after sanding down the jobs more and more. It used to be different in the past.

My favorite example of this is Viper. Remember Viper?
Viper at launch had an interesting "minigame" baked into their kit. Some attacks debuffed the enemy to take more damage. Applying that debuff was not difficult, but it required a bit of thought, as it could be applied by either a combo starter or a higher CD attack. And wouldn't you know it, a lot of people found that fun, engaging, and interesting.
However, someone at Square Enix thought this was too stressful to people, which resulted in Viper becoming defanged and brainless not even a month after it was released, because Square has no trust in the abilities of their playerbase, or confidence in their own product. (funny seeing how they do warp everything around PCT now though)

A fun class can elevate less fun fights. A boring class means that uninteresting, simple fights become a slog.

To be fair....ppl were complaing on forum about viper and allot of the class nuettering is cause of the player base not wanting to actually learn to play dont forget ppl literally were demanding lvl 100 content be braindead

[ovIm]

To be fair....ppl were complaing on forum about viper and allot of the class nuettering is cause of the player base not wanting to actually learn to play dont forget ppl literally were demanding lvl 100 content be braindead

Hate to be that guy but - not really, Yoshi-P has confirmed that the Viper change was not because of player feedback, but because of internal feedback. And checking the english DPS forums, more and more people protest the constant simplifications. Hells, even Yoshi-P himself stated that they went to far in terms of simplification (which hasn't deterred them from continuing this path, but that's a different topic really).

[Zakuyia]

Hate to be that guy but - not really, Yoshi-P has confirmed that the Viper change was not because of player feedback, but because of internal feedback. And checking the english DPS forums, more and more people protest the constant simplifications. Hells, even Yoshi-P himself stated that they went to far in terms of simplification (which hasn't deterred them from continuing this path, but that's a different topic really).

I HATE TO BE THE GUY AND CORRECT YOU. You but its true why you think we dont have clarince stance, or how tanks use to beable to switch from offensive to defensive stance, scholar use to have 2 dots to manage, summoner use to be harder, so on an so on. You know what happened p complained that they couldn't handle entire thing. Ppl complained about drk knights blackest knight caling it too over powered it got nerfed. You act like the forum is innocent from all of this. Hate to break it futher to you had the forum not broke out in all war against Dawn trail difficulty they may have nuettered it as well. You may like your job but the minority will always compain. Why u think dancer is no where near as strong as it was in ShadowBringer there were ppl made it was so powerful. I have seen ppl demanding nerfs for pictomancer.....so yeah please stop defending a player base who complains. The player base is just as in fault as the devs are.

Thats all.