7.1 Dragoon Changes Complaints

[CidHeiral]

To be brutally honest I wouldn't expect much to change until the supposed 8.0 job design overhaul and even then their track record so far doesn't give me a ton of confidence. However, to be fair they delivered on what they said they would with the encounter design changes in my opinion so it's certainly possible the same may happen for job design. I suppose we'll see.

[Aco505]

However, to be fair they delivered on what they said they would with the encounter design changes

In theory, this happens from 7.2 onward so... we will know around April.

[CidHeiral]

In theory, this happens from 7.2 onward so... we will know around April.

Oh I thought he clarified he was mistranslated on that? If 7.2 is accurate that would be great.

[ovIm]

Oh I thought he clarified he was mistranslated on that? If 7.2 is accurate that would be great.

There was a mistranslation going about 7.2 including new job design changes. That was corrected however, 7.2 is where the new encounter design should appear, which is supposed to pave the way for a new job design base.

I'll believe it when i see it.

[Carighan]

I wish in situations like these they'd at least pre-empt the community dislike for it and try to explain properly why they're doing something.

See, if my myopic view makes me think 90%+ loved the super-busy double-weaving burst but it turns out that no, that's just 90% of the english-speaking + PF + reclears/farming + EU community and for the game at large their stats produce that of all Dragoons in lvl100 savage content only 1 out of 6 or so GCD windows during burst is correctly woven and hence overall even if they're quiet it seems most players cannot work with the current design even just in high-end content, then fair enough. But I need to be told that! (made-up example, just getting the idea along)

I wish they'd do that. Open with "Yeah this might be a wee bit of a controversial change, here's why we're doing it though, based on XYZ". Even if that's "We had issues with animation scripting and we're working on something else and while this is purely a negative thing we need to patch it now so that in 2-3 patches we can do X"... hey... better than no explanation!

[Valence]

There was a mistranslation going about 7.2 including new job design changes. That was corrected however, 7.2 is where the new encounter design should appear, which is supposed to pave the way for a new job design base.

I'll believe it when i see it.

Don't hold your breath.

For jobs we're getting more and more simplifications and the sandpaper treatment, which naturally brings a lot of questions when it comes to the vaunted 8.0 job rework.
For encounters we're getting more and more visual DDR bullshit, which also naturally brings a lot of questions when it comes to the vaunted encounter rework.

[ovIm]

Don't hold your breath.

Oh, I am not holding my breath - what do you think "I'll believe it when I see it." means?
Yoshi-P's promised direction, and the patches actual direction differ noticeably.

[Schan]

My dudes, you're all taking the troll bait hard, and doing so only makes the feedback here more difficult to parse for whoever collects it for the devs.

counter-point which I didn't want to say it out loud. By feeding the troll the post count goes up and community devs will have to look into the thread.

Now, going on a tangent, I haven't read the interview in June but I am genuinely concerned that the community is taking the whole "increasing stress" YoshiP mentioned as more job complexity. What I am seeing trending in DT is that said stress will not come in the form of a "job rotation stress" but instead as "fight mechanics stress". Although I kind of like DT in the sense they have introduced and brought back mechanics I have enjoyed in the past I could also see the amount of complaining about the increased in difficulty.

Furthermore, the tendencies I have seen from the devs is that body check mechanics (aka if one person messes up it's a party wipe bc you need all 8 players for that mechanic) is how they increase the difficulty and I am not very keen on that type of mechanics. The most fun this one has is when a fight is a complete mess and you somehow still pull it off and I have a feeling this is the kind of fun healers thrive on. My conclusion is that there needs to be balance. I don't want a case of Levi Savage where you had 1 mechanic that had to pay attention to but i also don't want a case of Athena Savage where every other mechanic was a body check.

The other tendency they have been using lately to inflate difficulty which I absolutely disagree with is how they seem to only throw in those punishing mechanics every 2 minute mark (read: when you're doing your burst). One of the arguments I've seen in favor of these DRG changes is that now you have time to use Feint and my original counter argument to that was "shock horror you have to talk to the other players in your team and coordinate cooldowns" (which will never happen in PF lets be real) but in DT it feels like EVERY. SINGLE. MECHANIC. is at the 2 minute mark which makes my argument of "use communication duh" moot.

Back onto DRG complaints though, I am basically repeating myself ad nauseum the devs have created this problem with overly busy 2 minute burst rotation and I feel like the fact that our oGCDs now have a combo (or a follow-up whatever you prefer to call it) actually exacerbated the problem and Nastrond absolutely did not deserve to be culled down to 1 because of this oversight.

On another note, I think I have finally realised why we have the sadness skedaddle (read: Wing Glide). Most melees have a disengage and engage button and this has now brought DRG in line to most melees. I'm still not sold on the fact that Elusive buffs your throw spear. I don't just use Elusive for disengaging and now I'll probably going to be punished if I use Elusive at the "wrong time" as per dev vision.

[HikariKurosawa]

Now, going on a tangent, I haven't read the interview in June but I am genuinely concerned that the community is taking the whole "increasing stress" YoshiP mentioned as more job complexity. What I am seeing trending in DT is that said stress will not come in the form of a "job rotation stress" but instead as "fight mechanics stress". Although I kind of like DT in the sense they have introduced and brought back mechanics I have enjoyed in the past I could also see the amount of complaining about the increased in difficulty.

This was always what was implied and anything other than this was just misinterpretation.

You could always get by in 99% of content by ignoring the majority of the jobs' rotation, yet the encounter difficulty had always been balanced around optimal job execution. It's a flawed concept and they had to simplify in order to make encounters the way they wanted them to be. Personally I hated how easy this game was, and was put off by what it took to play the jobs to the fullest. I shouldn't have to do ultimate content to avoid falling asleep.

Yoshida also addressed previous feedback indicating that the game had become too stress-free, leading to a lack of novelty and challenge. This feedback prompted Yoshi-P, along with the team, a reevaluation of how battle mechanics are designed.

"In a positive sense, the game became stress-free, but in a negative sense, it lacked novelty and a sense of challenge," Yoshida admitted. He noted that the development team had been making overly safe decisions to avoid upsetting players, resulting in repetitive mechanics. However, he stated that the FFXIV team has an evolving approach to developing battle content, additionally assuring that encounters will require better strategy.

Starting from Patch 7.1, a major content update for the game, players will notice the shift towards more challenging battle gimmicks, said Yoshi-P. The team is "experimenting with new ideas in patch 7.0 to gradually introduce these changes." Yoshida assured players that while the story dungeons will remain accessible and enjoyable, expert-level content will feature many new, interesting mechanics.

"So I don't think [players] will feel the same way as before, especially if you are new to the game. After a few days of playing and getting used to it, you will probably find that it will gradually settle down to just the right amount of thrill."

When all the difficulty comes from mastering the job rotations, there will never be novelty. It gets very old very fast. Why work so hard at doing a flawless rotation for easy encounters that pretty much can't be failed? For a cringe parse? Now a lot of the people who were attached to high parses can't parse as high, and they are disappointed. How about just play the game?

[ovIm]

Now, going on a tangent, I haven't read the interview in June but I am genuinely concerned that the community is taking the whole "increasing stress" YoshiP mentioned as more job complexity. What I am seeing trending in DT is that said stress will not come in the form of a "job rotation stress" but instead as "fight mechanics stress". Although I kind of like DT in the sense they have introduced and brought back mechanics I have enjoyed in the past I could also see the amount of complaining about the increased in difficulty.

The interview in question can be found here if you are interested in giving it a real read to properly understand what was said..

While there is a mistranslation in there (job changes are not supposed to come 7.2, but on 8.0. 7.2 marks when new instances are coming), the money quote in there stands:

In an attempt to curb multiple updates' worth of simplification, Yoshi-P details how Square Enix "will be incorporating various changes" post-Dawntrail, some of which will be "related to the skill rotations." He even jokes that Kaiten could return as "Kaiten 2" and reiterates his earlier promise - come such changes, classes "will not be more simple."

Which, so far, they have not followed up upon.

In a different interview, Yoshi-P gave an interview where he lamented that FFXIV was too stress-free, comparing it to a platformer with no pits to fall into. As there is no victory without hurdles.