7.1 Double Down includes an oversight

[Yuoaman]

Yeah, really not a fan of the Double Down change, and I genuinely can't see a rationale as to why the change was made. It using two cartridges was a feature, not a pain point to be fixed.

[PeridotOlivine]

Between the Lion Heart combo and now this change in 7.1, I unfortunately think the design team for GNB is now entirely out of touch with the actual gameplay of the job in anything but dungeon content. The rotation was very nearly perfect in endwalker, but is increasingly all over the place now with weird timing issues that just feels very untested.

[Carighan]

Between the Lion Heart combo and now this change in 7.1, I unfortunately think the design team for GNB is now entirely out of touch with the actual gameplay of the job in anything but dungeon content. The rotation was very nearly perfect in endwalker, but is increasingly all over the place now with weird timing issues that just feels very untested.

I really seem to be the only one who genuinely enjoys "timing issues".

See, before, the rotation was "perfect". As in, each 2 minute cycle was exactly the same, with 0 divergence from the pattern.

So... erm... why am I, as a human, in front of the keyboard again then? Just make it so that my character goes through this cycle on their own as a single huge autocombo if that's all there is to it?

For characters to feel non-automated, they have to be imperfect. Either they're overflowing in a resource, they're starved for time in which to use their abilities and cycling CDs vie for priority and attention, they're unable to move without breaking their rotation (the original fantasy behind Black Mage before they gave them 156000 instant casts and movement abilities), I'm bound to random procs in my button sequence (Dancer), etc etc etc.

I'll be honest, if everyone here likes tanks the way they play now fine, but I find them dreadfully boring and dull since all they do is something that might as well be a single long macro. Not a tank-exclusive problem of course. /shrug

But importantly, I like how this change "ruins" things. Either you have excess resources, or your cycle becomes unstable. Actual player attention needed! Actual decisionmaking!

[Absurdity]

Yeah, really not a fan of the Double Down change, and I genuinely can't see a rationale as to why the change was made. It using two cartridges was a feature, not a pain point to be fixed.

It was a pain point, but it wasn't due to Double Down costing two cartridges alone but the addition of a third cartridge in general.

[CKNovel]

See, before, the rotation was "perfect". As in, each 2 minute cycle was exactly the same, with 0 divergence from the pattern.

Incorrect, if the boss had full uptime you had a "on rail" mapping just like all non-RNG job.
What changed is that when losing melee GCDs (due to downtime or mechanics), you had to think about cartridge management which isn't a thing for many DPS.

You had to decide how you spend you cartridges in order to always have 3 before a No Mercy window or be punished.
Now you don't have to think about that, regardless of the decision you make you'll never be punished.
Your burst is now ensured it will always be the same, the exact thing you're criticizing.

I feel that you're completely disconnected from the feedback here, 7.1 removes the punishment, planning, attention and decisionmaking due to the nature of the Cartridge economy.
Making sure I don't overfill a container isn't attention or decision making, that's just having the mental capacity of a toddler.

[Carighan]

Making sure I don't overfill a container isn't attention or decision making, that's just having the mental capacity of a toddler.

Is this an indirect jab at Dancer players? :P

Mind you, I should have worded that differently and said I like changes like this one. Because obviously in a vacuum it looks like an oversight, as OP says. It also doesn't really change much, as I then replied, you can mostly ignore it and do just about the same as before and then as you say, every so often it has an effect, 9 out of 10 times it doesn't.

But if we had loads such changes (not only resource-overcapping!) across all jobs, the static nature of combat would slowly break up, and that would be a massive boon too FFXIV's all-too-equal job design.

[Metricasc]

Hello,
I've adressed this question:
It feels counter intuitive
It's a way to just simplify GNB when the rigidity of the job was a big appeal to many players.

And as pointed out by Icecylee, they already solved the main issue. It's a change that rewards player who don't actively seek uptime and punish players who actively seek uptime.
The simplify aspect alone should be enough to be against this change.

so, I play with people who have played with GNB for high end content for years and I've also dabbled with GNB for a while now ever since it came out in 5.0. the double down change is objectively good rather than as bad as a lot of this thread is making it out to be. this has been an issue ever since the 3rd cart and Double Down was added in Endwalker.

out of all of the 4 tanks GNB is actively punished the hardest when the main rotation is messed up, you lose uptime or you die coming into your 2 mins as your double down will most likely drift around outside of the major issues. This change is also a major godsend to the class in multi phase fights such as M4S or any EW ulti and the upcoming ultimate raid as it is less reliant on starting up the burst on 3 carts and allows resource gen to be less of an issue. as a whole. i would go as far to say that this class wasn't even healthy to play in 7.0.

the main reason why hypervelocity lost potency in the changes also is to make up for the fact that now you do your 2 mins with 2 carts, you will need to do an extra Burst Strike > Hypervelocity in your filler between the 1:30 unbuffed gnashing combo and before the 2 mins in your rotation so you don't have 3 carts going into 2 mins.

"I hate this change as it makes it easier therefore bad" is kind of a bad mentality overall.

[Kaidryn]

so, I play with people who have played with GNB for high end content for years and I've also dabbled with GNB for a while now ever since it came out in 5.0. the double down change is objectively good rather than as bad as a lot of this thread is making it out to be. this has been an issue ever since the 3rd cart and Double Down was added in Endwalker.

out of all of the 4 tanks GNB is actively punished the hardest when the main rotation is messed up, you lose uptime or you die coming into your 2 mins as your double down will most likely drift around outside of the major issues. This change is also a major godsend to the class in multi phase fights such as M4S or any EW ulti and the upcoming ultimate raid as it is less reliant on starting up the burst on 3 carts and allows resource gen to be less of an issue. as a whole. i would go as far to say that this class wasn't even healthy to play in 7.0.

the main reason why hypervelocity lost potency in the changes also is to make up for the fact that now you do your 2 mins with 2 carts, you will need to do an extra Burst Strike > Hypervelocity in your filler between the 1:30 unbuffed gnashing combo and before the 2 mins in your rotation so you don't have 3 carts going into 2 mins.

"I hate this change as it makes it easier therefore bad" is kind of a bad mentality overall.

Your anecdotal evidence isn't any better than the anecdotal evidence people are providing here. I dislike the change, as do GNB mains in my social circles. It's all just opinions. Also, something being easier isn't "objectively good".

I personally enjoyed the rotation being rigid because the skill came from doing said rotation during mechanics. It's not a bad mentality to want things to be challenging. Some of us don't want every job to be easy.

[Absurdity]

I'm not a fan of the change in it's current form either, the change to Double Down should've come packaged with reducing the maximum catridges back to 2.

Granted I haven't mained Gunbreaker since Asphodelos because I hate the force 2-cart burst that patch 6.2 and the 2.50 GCD playstyle introduced, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Carighan]

I'm not a fan of the change in it's current form either, the change to Double Down should've come packaged with reducing the maximum catridges back to 2.

That's a thing I had not considered, but thinking about it, I think I'd like that, yeah. Feels more fast-paced if you can't pre-stack as much.