Thread: 7.1 Double Down includes an oversight

If they changed it so Double Down uses all your current cartridges, bringing it back in line with the rotation you're used to, that would eliminate this feeling some players have of "wasting" a cartridge. Though I think some people will find a new reason to complain.

uhhh i feel like you're gonna lose more damage doing a 1 2 3 combo in no mercy to NOT overcap than just overcapping 1 and using DD and continuing with opener..... feel like basic math and 2 seconds of testing should bear that out lol

Originally Posted by CKNovel

Incorrect, if the boss had full uptime you had a "on rail" mapping just like all non-RNG job.
What changed is that when losing melee GCDs (due to downtime or mechanics), you had to think about cartridge management which isn't a thing for many DPS.

You had to decide how you spend you cartridges in order to always have 3 before a No Mercy window or be punished.
Now you don't have to think about that, regardless of the decision you make you'll never be punished.
Your burst is now ensured it will always be the same, the exact thing you're criticizing.

I feel that you're completely disconnected from the feedback here, 7.1 removes the punishment, planning, attention and decisionmaking due to the nature of the Cartridge economy.
Making sure I don't overfill a container isn't attention or decision making, that's just having the mental capacity of a toddler.

uhhhh dancer and several other jobs would like a word....

Originally Posted by Metricasc

so, I play with people who have played with GNB for high end content for years and I've also dabbled with GNB for a while now ever since it came out in 5.0. the double down change is objectively good rather than as bad as a lot of this thread is making it out to be. this has been an issue ever since the 3rd cart and Double Down was added in Endwalker.

out of all of the 4 tanks GNB is actively punished the hardest when the main rotation is messed up, you lose uptime or you die coming into your 2 mins as your double down will most likely drift around outside of the major issues. This change is also a major godsend to the class in multi phase fights such as M4S or any EW ulti and the upcoming ultimate raid as it is less reliant on starting up the burst on 3 carts and allows resource gen to be less of an issue. as a whole. i would go as far to say that this class wasn't even healthy to play in 7.0.

the main reason why hypervelocity lost potency in the changes also is to make up for the fact that now you do your 2 mins with 2 carts, you will need to do an extra Burst Strike > Hypervelocity in your filler between the 1:30 unbuffed gnashing combo and before the 2 mins in your rotation so you don't have 3 carts going into 2 mins.

"I hate this change as it makes it easier therefore bad" is kind of a bad mentality overall.

no kidding, so many people that don't play at a high level trying to direct how jobs play is infuriating and how we end up with devs getting BAD feedback and garbo changes happening.

I have been using GNB after the change at first when i was using it i thought it would mess up the rotation quite a bit. After playing it through Dungeon and Raids, I can see why the change was positive. Previously it was quite punishing to have downtime or needing to use your range attack, a single missed GCD could cause drifting. The reduction of the cartridge from 2 to 1 allows a leeway that was missing in the where you can make range attacks and not feel like you will miss the 1 min or 2 min bursts with some forgiveness in in the 30 and 1:30 moments. I was going in with my 2 min with two cartridges was weird at first but after doing a 6 and 8 min rotation and do testing it with range attacks to simulate downtime, it feels better.

Now, you can still encounter a 2 min with one cartridge, but when I attempted to cause it to happen on purpose (used burst strike too much or too many range attacks were used). i can see the frustration but it is a relatively positive change in theory, testing, and in practice.

the change is fine, doesn't make a big difference, besides making the rotation a bit less strict.

Originally Posted by SWATomega

I have been using GNB after the change at first when i was using it i thought it would mess up the rotation quite a bit. After playing it through Dungeon and Raids, I can see why the change was positive. Previously it was quite punishing to have downtime or needing to use your range attack, a single missed GCD could cause drifting. The reduction of the cartridge from 2 to 1 allows a leeway that was missing in the where you can make range attacks and not feel like you will miss the 1 min or 2 min bursts with some forgiveness in in the 30 and 1:30 moments. I was going in with my 2 min with two cartridges was weird at first but after doing a 6 and 8 min rotation and do testing it with range attacks to simulate downtime, it feels better.

Now, you can still encounter a 2 min with one cartridge, but when I attempted to cause it to happen on purpose (used burst strike too much or too many range attacks were used). i can see the frustration but it is a relatively positive change in theory, testing, and in practice.

The problem is: If downtime is causing drift due to how strict the rotation is, the solution is to give GNB something to do during downtime. GNB should have something like Forbidden Mediation to reload cartridges the way MNK fills Chakra (we could even reuse the old Quick Reload animation from HW MCH). Putting it on the GCD will prevent it from being used on cooldown like Improvisation was in ShB. Like, it's lore compliant that the Gunblade can be reloaded with pre-loaded cartridges because Thancred does it. Why can't we do it, too?

It's also just not an issue to have some classes be better at handling drift and others worse so long as the latter does something else better in return. Job identity is important, otherwise you might as well just have "Tank" as a job with 4 different weapons that all work the same just for visual purposes.

GNB went from being my favourite tank in DT to being my super duper big favouritist tank in DT after the change. It honestly gives that third cartridge slot a reason to be there, now.