Feedback: Dawntrail MSQ dungeon difficulty

[Arohk]

What part of P10S was hard?

P10 savage, good question, it was mainly the speed of resolving mechanics, compared with the raids now, if there was one more second of leeway to stack/ spread before the mechanics resolved.
ALso the narrow bridge over the poison killed a lot of people because of the janky movement in Standard Controls, i had to switch to legacy for that boss which i never had to do before.

[Banggugyangu]

P10 savage, good question, it was mainly the speed of resolving mechanics, compared with the raids now, if there was one more second of leeway to stack/ spread before the mechanics resolved.
ALso the narrow bridge over the poison killed a lot of people because of the janky movement in Standard Controls, i had to switch to legacy for that boss which i never had to do before.

I don't remember P10S having any faster resolutions than any other fight... And that's kinda my whole point... All the fights have basically the same amount of time to resolve mechanics across the whole game. There are some mechanics that have EXTRA time, but I don't know of any mechanics that are really shorter than the majority. From the moment a tell is given until the time the mechanic resolves is typically around 4-5 seconds.

On the jankiness of standard movement, being a controller player, I've always been legacy movement, so I can't comment. I will admit that I did have plenty of times where I dipped my toes in the poo, but it was always my own poor execution when it happened. Now, what I'll admit on that fight that made it a bit more difficult was the jankiness of turret targeting... I can't tell you how many times we'd be lined up, no one moving whatsoever, and a turret randomly targets someone else. I might even have a vod of that still. But I don't factor jank into difficulty, honestly. Jank is something not working as intended. It sucks, and it can absolutely screw prog when it happens, but jank is its own category.

[Arohk]

On the jankiness of standard movement, being a controller player, I've always been legacy movement, so I can't comment. I will admit that I did have plenty of times where I dipped my toes in the poo, but it was always my own poor execution when it happened. Now, what I'll admit on that fight that made it a bit more difficult was the jankiness of turret targeting... I can't tell you how many times we'd be lined up, no one moving whatsoever, and a turret randomly targets someone else.

So if you don't know the jankiness of standard controls, it is like this, you run straight forward with W or holding both mouse buttons, but when you use any skills that attack the boss, you character turns to the boss and you run towards him instead, which results in you running off the edge.

Legacy movement doesnt have that problem because your movement is camera based instead of character based, even though your character turns to the boss when ever you attack it doesnt effect the direction you were moving.

and i can 100% guarantee you that mechanics resolved a lot faster in P10 than usually, especialy when you had the stack/spread mechanic on the side bridge, i always had to stack or spread at the far north of the small platform, and if i didn't move the moment when my debuff ran out i wouldn't make it to the middle for a party stack.

If i compare that to other sack / spread mechanics in the current raid tier, there is a lot of time to adjust, P10 debuffs resolved at least 1 second too quickly.

[Banggugyangu]

So if you don't know the jankiness of standard controls, it is like this, you run straight forward with W or holding both mouse buttons, but when you use any skills that attack the boss, you character turns to the boss and you run towards him instead, which results in you running off the edge.

Legacy movement doesnt have that problem because your movement is camera based instead of character based, even though your character turns to the boss when ever you attack it doesnt effect the direction you were moving.

and i can 100% guarantee you that mechanics resolved a lot faster in P10 than usually, especialy when you had the stack/spread mechanic on the side bridge, i always had to stack or spread at the far north of the small platform, and if i didn't move the moment when my debuff ran out i wouldn't make it to the middle for a party stack.

If i compare that to other sack / spread mechanics in the current raid tier, there is a lot of time to adjust, P10 debuffs resolved at least 1 second too quickly.

You're talking about the two debuffs everyone gets with a spread and either role stacks or buddy stacks? Those debuffs are on you for 41 and 45 seconds. The shorter resolves first. That's still 4 seconds between. If you think it "resolves faster", you're likely waiting for the animation of the first before moving. Move as soon as the debuff icon falls off. You have 4 seconds to get in position. (I just went back and watched one of my old P10S vods to confirm.)

Also... standard movement sounds horribly stupid.

[AllenThyl]

I don't remember P10S having any faster resolutions than any other fight... And that's kinda my whole point... All the fights have basically the same amount of time to resolve mechanics across the whole game. There are some mechanics that have EXTRA time, but I don't know of any mechanics that are really shorter than the majority. From the moment a tell is given until the time the mechanic resolves is typically around 4-5 seconds.

Technically, that is correct, p10s however was a bit of a different case. For one, there were "only" 3 seconds between the stack and the spread debuff going on. However, what really confounded this and made it such a wall in pf, is that the resolution of the debuffs was accompanied by a lengthy animation of wings with a ring coming down and exploding, with the damage only being shown when the explosion happened. However, the ring animation only started when the debuff already resolved and people even got their vuln buff. Meaning there is a delay of roughly a second between the mechanic actually resolving server wise, and the end result of the mechanic visible on the screen. This often lead to situations were people died while properly spread out. Quite frankly, this was all very bad UX. The animation should have started so that the explosion and damage numbers happen at the same time as the damage calculation. It also didn't help that the stack mechanic was a hard ennumeration, so if only one person didn't get into the stack, all 3 would die with no way to mitigate this. This would often end runs if one tank was a tad bit too slow and killed the other 3 supports. Same for the net, which would often break because someone would overshoot just a little bit. This made the mechanic very fragile and finnicky. It should have caused a 2 second debuff to a player while standing in the net, and it ticking down to 0 should have removed the net.