Are classes needed? POLL

[Majidah]

Just based on your posts, do neither of you see how great it is that there are multiple strategies for taking things down?

actually my blm dies to hellfire if someone doesn't cast stoneskin on me, so I don't know what he's talking about <_>

[darkstarpoet1]

Just based on your posts, do neither of you see how great it is that there are multiple strategies for taking things down?

oh yes, that's why i am sure we both voted to keep the classes in. i was just pointing out that thm is not needed to complete it. it's one where there is a choice on which way people want to complete it. people just seem to think that sentinel is still needed for that fight and it is not the case at all.

that was the only reason for pointing out an alternative method.

actually my blm dies to hellfire if someone doesn't cast stoneskin on me, so I don't know what he's talking about <_>

if you take down all 4 nails you take around 650 damage from hellfire with sanguine rite only. after hellfire goes off use your second wind to recover almost 600 of that damage back. that takes you from full hp to around 60 hp from full after the ability.

[Zyph]

but when compared to blm you can take down all 4 nails easily and with sanguine rite + second wind you are still full health after hellfire even on blm. after hellfire on blm i am usually around 60 hp from completely full when i go back in to attack. that is using only blm skills and if doing the content that way with decent dps you have no need for the other defensive abilities.

As a WHM, I can tell you, one of the DDs is going to die from stepping on a crack. It will be the BRD most likely. I'm sure as shit not leaving my little hidy-hole to come raise the dumbass "deeps" that couldn't think to move out of the way, that's a good way to cause a wipe. So who's going to raise when the BRD is dead or on Raise cooldown?

[darkstarpoet1]

As a WHM, I can tell you, one of the DDs is going to die from stepping on a crack. It will be the BRD most likely. I'm sure as shit not leaving my little hidy-hole to come raise the dumbass "deeps" that couldn't think to move out of the way, that's a good way to cause a wipe. So who's going to raise when the BRD is dead or on Raise cooldown?

i didn't mention a brd being in the party at all actually.

what we usually do is the whm's do not raise unless it's after hellfire and during his triple dash. very rarely do we have anyone die to cracks anymore, but still may lose one every now and then. sanguine rite from a brd is useless for the mages though as it's defensive ability that comes from it only comes when using it as a thm or blm.

we just simply take down the nails and sanguine rite on ourselves before hellfire and if it's played correctly you will still have stoneskin and protect from the start of the fight. usually the fight from start to finish with blm's lasts less than 6-7 min total and hellfire is around 3 min in.

edit: i am not saying that the other way is wrong, but that it's not required. both options is completely acceptable and work just as well as the other. was just pointing out that alternative does work just as well.

[Lux_Rayna]

Just based on your posts, do neither of you see how great it is that there are multiple strategies for taking things down?

Ffs 1000x this. Seriously. What is up with ppl hating anything that gives them more than one option. Are you all incapable of making good choices without someone telling you what the best choice is? Do you all lack the testicular fortitude and self-confidence to make a choice without being forced into one? Answer me dammit!

This job/class thing is stupid. And by stupid I mean the argument, not the fact that jobs/classes exist. The argument is stupid because it makes no damn sense. "Get rid of classes because...because because..." because why exactly? "Classes are redundant!" you say, but I vehemently disagree. Classes have access to a greater variety of abilities, thus they are different and fulfill different roles.

Jobs are specific. They can only do one thing. Now because jobs are in their infancy, they don't seem too different from classes, but they are quite different. GLA has access to diff abilities than PLD, arc than brd, war than mrd (not that this makes a big difference), and drg than lnc. Its self-sufficiency vs specialization. Jobs lock you in a really defined role, classes allow you to do your role while still remaining pretty flexible. The difference between these two concepts is huge, and you'd have to be a mentally challenged orc to not see it.


They coexist as a way to give us options. You now can choose how you want to play. If you never want to touch a job ever you do not have to. Screw playing BRD, you say, you want to do crazy dps with arc by spamming invigorate, keen flurries, etc etc. Screw PLD, you say, i'll keep GLA with all my taunts, provokes, prism cures, yadda yadda. In other words, jobs are not *derp* required. They are just an option. You never have to play a job ever, unless the group requires a really really specific role where you do one thing and nothing else. To make life easy on us, this is why SE did not force us to level jobs.


Now that we understand we can all stfu and stop this silly, nonsensical, ill-contrived, absurd argument.

[RockVolnutt]

What I think they need to do is just make classes be able to equip a variety of weapons that are semi-related to the class, and have WS's swap according to the variety of weapon.
Then all that's left is to keep Jobs strictly weapon-locked, for role fulfillment.
For example, a Gladiator un-equips his shield (which is currently pointless to do. D, maybe gains an attack buff, loses all of his shield skills, and in replace gets DD focused WS's, or maybe equips a dagger and gains DPS WS's.
This would give variety to classes while opening up possibilities of new jobs, and also allowing jobs to be very different from classes.
All in all, classes have the ability to be very robust, and should stay solely because of the potential they could bring with a few changes. I often feel the reason classes are here is lost on some people, originally they where meant to be more of a "design your own class" feel, which is what they should expand upon. Make classes be almost limitless, able to overcome a variety of situations, yet hampered in terms of role definition, giving better stats to jobs for obvious reasons.

TL;DR: Classes should be more "Jack of all trades" with lower stats than Jobs.
Jobs should be tailored for a more structured play style.
Also, speaking of classes and jobs + polls, didn't yoshi say that the battle poll results would be revealed with the patch notes or am I mistaken?

[Jynx]

I'd rather more dynamic and unique jobs, the class system is far more restricting than people seem to think it is. I personally think it stifles being creative with jobs due to the requirement that the jobs be tied to their origin classes.

[darkstarpoet1]

What I think they need to do is just make classes be able to equip a variety of weapons that are semi-related to the class, and have WS's swap according to the variety of weapon.
Then all that's left is to keep Jobs strictly weapon-locked, for role fulfillment.
For example, a Gladiator un-equips his shield (which is currently pointless to do. D, maybe gains an attack buff, loses all of his shield skills, and in replace gets DD focused WS's, or maybe equips a dagger and gains DPS WS's.
This would give variety to classes while opening up possibilities of new jobs, and also allowing jobs to be very different from classes.
All in all, classes have the ability to be very robust, and should stay solely because of the potential they could bring with a few changes. I often feel the reason classes are here is lost on some people, originally they where meant to be more of a "design your own class" feel, which is what they should expand upon. Make classes be almost limitless, able to overcome a variety of situations, yet hampered in terms of role definition, giving better stats to jobs for obvious reasons.

TL;DR: Classes should be more "Jack of all trades" with lower stats than Jobs.
Jobs should be tailored for a more structured play style.
Also, speaking of classes and jobs + polls, didn't yoshi say that the battle poll results would be revealed with the patch notes or am I mistaken?

ya know this is what i originally thought classes and jobs would be.

thm for example would have been nuke/dot's and would have 2 jobs that were specializations of each. 1 nuking job and 1 dot job.

cnj could have been healer/enfeebles and would have 2 jobs that is specialized in.

so forth and so on. it was kind of suprising that they made the classes a base version of only 1 job at this point so it only had 1 way it could go off the base class. i understand it can be expanded upon in the future, but it just seems they limited the classes too far which kept them from having any usage outside of solo. if each class had 2 base versions where it could specialize 2 different ways the base versions may have been more sought after until they put the second jobs in for each class.

[Zell]

I'm sorry but I havn't needed to use a single class for any content since the advent of Jobs. I know they can be used for speed runs in Cutter's or Aurum Vale (however, only one or two people in the party need to be a class), which is a gimmick.

When I solo, I use either BLM (nuke/sleep combo) or Warrior (steel cyclone/rampage).....I absolutely see no compelling reason to have classes. It's a hassle carrying 17 sets of gear if you have all jobs to 50. The only reason people used Gladiators is because Paladins are lacking in tanking right now and can't kite as well. However, once pally gets adjusted (very soon) there's little to no reason to use Gladiators.

I know people like classes maybe for nostalgia sake, or variety sake... but there are no COMPELLING reasons to have them. The one in a million opportunities do not justify the headache of maintaining separate gear sets, separate macros, etc etc.

My 2 cents.

PS - I have no idea what the solution would be.

[Lux_Rayna]

I'm sorry but I havn't needed to use a single class for any content since the advent of Jobs. I know they can be used for speed runs in Cutter's or Aurum Vale (however, only one or two people in the party need to be a class), which is a gimmick.

Dear sir you seem confused, allow me to point you to wisdom

They coexist as a way to give us options. You now can choose how you want to play. If you never want to touch a job ever you do not have to. Screw playing BRD, you say, you want to do crazy dps with arc by spamming invigorate, keen flurries, etc etc. Screw PLD, you say, i'll keep GLA with all my taunts, provokes, prism cures, yadda yadda. In other words, jobs are not *derp* required. They are just an option. You never have to play a job ever, unless the group requires a really really specific role where you do one thing and nothing else. To make life easy on us, this is why SE did not force us to level jobs.

Now that we understand we can all stfu and stop this silly, nonsensical, ill-contrived, absurd argument.

An option is an option. By the same token I can say I never felt like I had to use jobs either. So by your logic, to hell with classes! Let's get rid of jobs!! Don't need em, trash em!

You see how absurd this sounds right?