Melbourne International games week Interview about content

[Carin-Eri]

I don't know if any of the teams playing some of the F2P games on the market currently. I'm playing Wuthering Wave right now and after allocating a monthly budget similarly to FF14 (15$/month), the value honestly do not even compare. One of the thing it makes me realize is just how ... dated FF14 is. Writing, graphic, cutsceen, voice is either on par or a step above FF14. And the world exploration really make FF14 open world play feel like a game from 20 years ago.

One of most significance difference is just overall how ... smooth everything is. Transition from zone to zone, dialogue to cutsceen ... comparing to FF14's where you constantly going into a 2-3 seconds black screen when you need to switch from one thing to another. I didn't care much until the beginning of DT where the constant cut to black-screen became apparent due to how many unnecessary cutsceens there was. But now that I'm getting used to the smoothness of modern game it really hits home how bad the engine FF14 is. In a way FF14's cut to black now feels like the Starfield's loading screen meme.

And this is not something I think they can fix even if they want to. There is no deniable how limited the game engine of FF14 is. They really should have not rushed to conclude the Hyadelin story line. Between Omega, Garlemard, Zodiac they probably had enough for 2 expansions after end walker. They should have used that time to sunset FF14 while working toward a new MMO's engine for the next story. I don't think FF14 is so old now that it won't have what it takes to carry for another 10 years.

Also. you get new content every 1.5 months

F2P is the very definition of a double-edged sword though.

To repeat something I said in another post - I came to FFXIV from another MMO I'd played for 12 years. An MMO which started off okay but took at look at gambleboxes as a method of income and eventually based it's entire (now gatcha-style) business model on selling them (and stupidly expensive bundles).
Imagine you really want a particular weapon and the only way of getting it is opening loot boxes - you open a loot box.... and receive an item of garden furniture for a house you don't own. Oh well, bad luck - better buy another five-box bundle (that'll be another £30 please) and keep trying.

And in the background the game eventually started to suffer, as the Devs focus switched from making new playable content to making the gambleboxes more attractive to maintain profitability. And the worst part? They never revealed the odds of winning the 'main prize' (though they were independently worked out to be preposterously low) - I gather that, to this day, there is little in the way of any legal obligation for them to do so.

To be honest, I'd almost definitely quit if gambleboxes found their way into this game. I've seen firsthand how they can ruin an MMO.

[ovIm]

F2P is the very definition of a double-edged sword though.

I think that is kinda missing the point Raven2014 is trying to do here.

For the monetization part - each (live service) game needs a constant revenue stream to operate, and there are different ways to go about it. FF14 does it kinda well with asking everyone for the same fair price, other games try to subsidize freeloaders by getting more money from people wanting to drop more cash in their game (if I buy a mount that costs 60€, I am kinda paying the monthly cost of me and 3 other people, assuming a cost of 15€ per Month per Person).

With a constant, calculatable revenue stream, a company like Square Enix should be able to match content pacing and quality with that of a F2P gamblebox game. They just don't.

[Raven2014]

F2P is the very definition of a double-edged sword though.

...

To be honest, I'd almost definitely quit if gambleboxes found their way into this game. I've seen firsthand how they can ruin an MMO.

I'll be blunt, if you're the type who easily get hooked on gambling or have issue with impulse control, you should stay away from F2P gacha as far as possible. And what you said apply more to the old F2Ps game from probably 10-15 years ago. I said before I used to don't have a kind look toward F2P games for the same reasons you mentioned, but modern F2P are really attractive in term of what they offer.

After playing a few of them for a few months, most modern F2P seems to follow this pricing structure:

- Completely F2P players: can still play and get most things, but may demand heavy time investment.

- Monthly Subscribed players: ranging from 5$-15$ a months. Offer the same comfort as playing a traditional MMO.

- Whale players: for those who wants everything, and wanted to have them yesterday.


In my experience engaging with their communities, most people are in the 2nd category. You go to any of them and pose as a new players asking for advise on how to spend, that's what gonna be recommended to you, and that's what the majority of players self-identified as. Looking at the pay structure, it's very obvious there are some artificial wall against F2P players to nudge them toward paying, the monthly subscritions are extremely attractive value wide, while anything beyond that is just straight up exploitive, but only if you're the type who let yourself being exploited. So it's clear what companies are doing with their pricing.

To put it in perspective:

- In FF14 you need an average 2 months to BiS a jobs, costing $30.

- In F2P Gacha, spending $30 over 2 months

- In FF14, you can get gears very quickly if you're willing to RMT (probably in the hundred or thousand of dollar) clears.

- In F2P Gacha, they just put that options officially in the game.


As long as I maintain discipline, like I said these F2P games offer a much more modern and content rich experience comparing to FF14 becuase you know what? At least it feels Gacha games constantly invest the money they made back into the games, can't say that for FF14.

[Carin-Eri]

I'll be blunt, if you're the type who easily get hooked on gambling or have issue with impulse control, you should stay away from F2P gacha as far as possible. And what you said apply more to the old F2Ps game from probably 10-15 years ago. I said before I used to don't have a kind look toward F2P games for the same reasons you mentioned, but modern F2P are really attractive in term of what they offer.

But there are still older MMOs around that do still use that 'old F2P' model as they have the sort of playerbase who tolerate it; the sort that several people have bemoaned here - the sort who complain about what they don't like but give the game company their money anyway, which sends a message to said company in the only language the company understands or cares about.
Which was one of the reasons I quit the game I used to play; I didn't want to support their business model.

As for lootboxes - was never that bothered about them myself when I played an older game that pretty much built it's business model around them, but certainly had friends who were addicted to them and at least one whom got themselves into a LOT of debt because of them.

[Raven2014]

But there are still older MMOs around that do still use that 'old F2P' model as they have the sort of playerbase who tolerate it; the sort that several people have bemoaned here - the sort who complain about what they don't like but give the game company their money anyway, which sends a message to said company in the only language the company understands or cares about.
Which was one of the reasons I quit the game I used to play; I didn't want to support their business model.

As for lootboxes - was never that bothered about them myself when I played an older game that pretty much built it's business model around them, but certainly had friends who were addicted to them and at least one whom got themselves into a LOT of debt because of them.

Then none of what you're saying really related to anything I'm saying. That's why I specifically said "modern F2P" in my post. All of the F2P I play are 2020+. I hate the fact that every time F2P comes up, the discussion immideately shift to the gambling/addiction because people seems to get stuck with the old bias/stereotype that's hardly applied any more. I wasn't talking about that, what I want to pointed out is objectively speaking, a lot of modern F2P games are just simply ... a better game, specfically they feel like a game made after 2020, whether FF14 felt like a PS3 era game most of the time.


And you know what, I guess that's why you see the shift in Yoshi's tone in this interview. Comparing to the old F2P games, FF14 did really stood a step above and Yoshi knew he was offering something better than the rest of the market. That's why he could say "it's ok people to quit and play other games" because he knew players always gonna come back to FF14 simply because it was the better value. But now I think he's waking up to the fact that it's no longer the case, and the modern F2P games are giving his game a real argument about where players can spend their money.

[genuine_stranger]

Then none of what you're saying really related to anything I'm saying. That's why I specifically said "modern F2P" in my post. All of the F2P I play are 2020+. I hate the fact that every time F2P comes up, the discussion immideately shift to the gambling/addiction because people seems to get stuck with the old bias/stereotype that's hardly applied any more. I wasn't talking about that, what I want to pointed out is objectively speaking, a lot of modern F2P games are just simply ... a better game, specfically they feel like a game made after 2020, whether FF14 felt like a PS3 era game most of the time.


And you know what, I guess that's why you see the shift in Yoshi's tone in this interview. Comparing to the old F2P games, FF14 did really stood a step above and Yoshi knew he was offering something better than the rest of the market. That's why he could say "it's ok people to quit and play other games" because he knew players always gonna come back to FF14 simply because it was the better value. But now I think he's waking up to the fact that it's no longer the case, and the modern F2P games are giving his game a real argument about where players can spend their money.

^This.

I am playing 2 F2P games currently and spend around 20 - €30 a month on them combined. For what it's worth, they offer me a better value per money spent than FFXIV. I can log in for 30*min - 1h daily, make some progress and move on.
Truth be told, I got caught off guard and spent far too much money on one than I'm comfortable with, but that's the stupid tax. Learned my lesson after that.

Compared to 14, where I don't have any meaningful long-term progression for my character, so I log in maybe once every two weeks check on my retainers and log out.

[Jeeqbit]

Compared to 14, where I don't have any meaningful long-term progression for my character, so I log in maybe once every two weeks check on my retainers and log out.

So what is meaningful, long-term progression to you? What do these other games do that makes you feel that way?

I personally feel that FFXIV offers that for me personally, but I get it may not for others if they are not interested in the same things as me.

[Volgia]

I don't know, I find myself disagreeing with a lot of people on this post on why people are leaving the game, some of them are just tired of playing the same game with the same formula for 10 years and the world is currently shifting, the old population that might have started in their 20s are now entering a new stage on life, there's too many variables regardless on how good or bad the content might end up being.

I almost know for a fact that by the time 8.0 drops I'll likely be dropping out of the game, cuz I am ready to move on with my life to something else.

[genuine_stranger]

So what is meaningful, long-term progression to you? What do these other games do that makes you feel that way?

I personally feel that FFXIV offers that for me personally, but I get it may not for others if they are not interested in the same things as me.

A system, or rather various systems, I can work on which allow me a casual approach to gain and access power for my character.
Gear, power systems, and various other things which I can gradually optimize. I can launch the game, put an hour in and still feel like I made progress in some way, shape or form.

In 14, we just got gear, and if you don't raid, there is not even a point hopping onto that treadmill because it will become irrelevant in the x.2 and x.4 patches.

[Brightamethyst]

So what is meaningful, long-term progression to you? What do these other games do that makes you feel that way?

FFXIV's biggest problem right now is that there's very little incentive to actually log in and play every day. If you're a new player with a decade of content ahead of you, sure, but for veterans? Almost all major content is one and done things (MSQ, role quests, etc) and even the things that are repeatable don't serve a whole lot of purpose beyond the basics. Yeah, I could run the same 2 (3 at launch!) dungeons in roulette every day for umpteen weeks or months, but to what end? While I enjoy most FFXIV content in general, very little of it is sustainable past the first couple of weeks.

Compare to other games where the are daily quests, rep grinds, more varied weekly events, bigger random dungeon pools, etc. And yes, not everyone likes all, or even any of those things, and even if you do like them they will eventually wear thin after you've finished the grind or gotten all the rewards you want, or whatever, but the options are there.