Fine, Bloodwhetting is too OP

[Rithy255]

Besides guardian which is problematic for the reasons I explained (it’s basically a second invuln) the bigger problem is pure healing because without a healer your HP should be on a downward slope, you shouldn’t have enough healing to outheal incoming damage as a tank

Know what I actually agree with you on that last part I do think tanks should need some form of healing from healers, I do think in some instances (like warrior even Paladin/Gunbreaker) should lose some sustain, but theirs also a argument to be made that mostly it's actually the mitigation and actual damage that the tanks take. I would actually agree with you if your solution wasn't just to make tanks more boring for people who actually enjoy the role (aka removing most forms of sustain makes the role more boring, Mitigation doesn't feel that interactive esp in casual content).

No Paladins Guardian isn't a invul, do that on savage mechs where you actually need a invul and it will show you that it's not a invul, I'm also fine with the "shield tank" that doesn't do as much damage as gunbreaker to feel a more defensive then GNB, Lets be real though both actually have very similar defensive kits and self healing, Besides the fact that Gunbreaker also has a shorter cooldown on its invul, I do not think Paladin in it's current state is a "op tank" it's actually just good for once.

[Supersnow845]

Know what I actually agree with you on that last part I do think tanks should need some form of healing from healers, I do think in some instances (like warrior even Paladin/Gunbreaker) should lose some sustain, but theirs also a argument to be made that mostly it's actually the mitigation and actual damage that the tanks take. I would actually agree with you if your solution wasn't just to make tanks more boring for people who actually enjoy the role (aka removing most forms of sustain makes the role more boring, Mitigation doesn't feel that interactive esp in casual content).

No Paladins Guardian isn't a invul, do that on savage mechs where you actually need a invul and it will show you that it's not a invul, I'm also fine with the "shield tank" that doesn't do as much damage as gunbreaker to feel a more defensive then GNB, Lets be real though both actually have very similar defensive kits and self healing, Besides the fact that Gunbreaker also has a shorter cooldown on its invul, I do not think Paladin in it's current state is a "op tank" it's actually just good for once.

I’m not sure why mitigation doesn’t feel interactive but self healing does in your mind

My “solution” isn’t just taking sustain away from the tanks and calling it a day. My solution involves the tanks actually being tanks in terms of agro, mitigation control over long periods of time (not just flashing mitigation right before a TB) and boss positioning. Right now tanks are just a fusion of basic melee and off healer. My solution isn’t just to nerf tanks I don’t know how many more times I can say that

And why should sustain not be changed because tanks enjoy it when healers don’t. Why don’t healers get a say in tanks doing their role for them