Solution to Astrologian problem

[SerephinaBlossom]

Just put the cards back to the old system in HW, Then again it would be too "hard" for the player base and they will sook about it.

[Carighan]

Just put the cards back to the old system in HW, Then again it would be too "hard" for the player base and they will sook about it.

Or maybe modern players just enjoy being actually useful to their groups. What a wild, crazy theory that'd be.

[Supersnow845]

Or maybe modern players just enjoy being actually useful to their groups. What a wild, crazy theory that'd be.

AST’s modern “usefulness” has next to nothing to do the its cards anyway, it’s because it has divination which isn’t even linked to the cards anymore

Delete spear and balance out if an average parse and it’s still doing about the same damage as WHM and its other 4 cards amount to pointless single target fluff heals AST is already drowning in

The greatest ratio of consistent contribution of the cards vs total AST contribution was in ShB

[Valence]

Or maybe modern players just enjoy being actually useful to their groups. What a wild, crazy theory that'd be.

Except at the start of its introduction where it was kinda broken (like MCH), AST has after that been the most potent and sought after healer in raiding with little exception. True, SB WhM was garbage, but even then, it was extremely popular and effective in HW as well. The idea that it makes the job useless to a group has been disproved by history ten times and twice more already, no matter the rng sugarcoat on the card system, which was designed as raid buffing first and foremost and mitigating last (only the Bole actually mitigated, half of the cards were doing support like rphys used to, the other half were the desired ones most of the time for actual damage buffs).

The system that doesn't work due to rng and for the reasons you mentioned, was most of the iterations of Minor Arcana, however. That's what doesn't work well for a lot of people, but even in SB where the job was beloved by most, it didn't prevent people to just use them as they came, and pray to get more Lords than Ladies.

[Aravell]

I'll never understand why people are so adamant about wanting all RNG removed from AST, that would just make it WHM with a card flavour.

I don't know about anyone else, but I really don't see the point of having 2 WHMs, we already have 2 SCHs and everyone hates it.

[Carighan]

I'll never understand why people are so adamant about wanting all RNG removed from AST, that would just make it WHM with a card flavour.

Well, we currently have no RNG, do you feel like you're just a White Mage with some card flavor?

I mean, beyond all the general issues, like all healers just spamming a single nuke and having 0 reason to heal outside of oGCD use, of course. That has to be solved at a game level, by dealing actual and constant damage to both the tank and the raid, all the time, so that no oGCD-array can cover that, before long they're all on CD and you got to GCD heal.

Importantly, if you are going to answer "Yes, with randomized cards I'd feel different from WHM, but not without that!", then consider this: Would they then make it a 50/50 coin flip to gain a charge for the Blood Lily on using either Lily heal (essentially adding randomness to the core mechanic of WHM!) would you again feel the same as White Mage, because they now got randomness, too? As in, would the pure downgrade from having to beg your job mechanic to actually work be enough to sort regen healers into two categories, "Works as advertised" vs "Sometimes works as advertised, sometimes you just draw a dud"?

[Supersnow845]

Well, we currently have no RNG, do you feel like you're just a White Mage with some card flavor?

I mean, beyond all the general issues, like all healers just spamming a single nuke and having 0 reason to heal outside of oGCD use, of course. That has to be solved at a game level, by dealing actual and constant damage to both the tank and the raid, all the time, so that no oGCD-array can cover that, before long they're all on CD and you got to GCD heal.

Importantly, if you are going to answer "Yes, with randomized cards I'd feel different from WHM, but not without that!", then consider this: Would they then make it a 50/50 coin flip to gain a charge for the Blood Lily on using either Lily heal (essentially adding randomness to the core mechanic of WHM!) would you again feel the same as White Mage, because they now got randomness, too? As in, would the pure downgrade from having to beg your job mechanic to actually work be enough to sort regen healers into two categories, "Works as advertised" vs "Sometimes works as advertised, sometimes you just draw a dud"?

Except AST didn’t “didnt work” when you drew the wrong card because its entire minigame was around mitigation and playing around the RNG you got, if you were relying on drawing something in particular for a particular mechanic then you were playing AST wrong, what set AST’s gameplay apart was the fact that you were playing something on the side alongside your healing. Current AST just gives you extra charges of useless single target heals you barely use anyway and calls them “cards” despite there being zero minigame around playing them

Modern AST doesn’t “always work as advertised” it just makes the cards to completely pointless and useless with zero feedback on “playing” them well that it just feels like you are playing a generic filler regen healer which is what WHM has felt like for years

[Aravell]

Well, we currently have no RNG, do you feel like you're just a White Mage with some card flavor?

Yes, it feels very much like a WHM. In fact, it feels worse than a WHM because the lily system at least works towards something else while the DT card system is so shallow that it could be removed entirely and AST would still play the same

Importantly, if you are going to answer "Yes, with randomized cards I'd feel different from WHM, but not without that!", then consider this: Would they then make it a 50/50 coin flip to gain a charge for the Blood Lily on using either Lily heal (essentially adding randomness to the core mechanic of WHM!) would you again feel the same as White Mage, because they now got randomness, too? As in, would the pure downgrade from having to beg your job mechanic to actually work be enough to sort regen healers into two categories, "Works as advertised" vs "Sometimes works as advertised, sometimes you just draw a dud"?

Except reversing it doesn't work because WHM was never designed to work with RNG, you can clearly see how WHM players rightly complained when the SB lily system put RNG into WHM.

In contrast, AST was always designed to work with RNG, that's why all the cards are just additional bonuses. You never needed Bole to survive or Balance to beat a dps check.

Also, the fact that you have a card manipulation system means there's only a very small chance that you can claim that you drew a dud. Triple Spire Sleeve Draw in SB was a dud, but statistically how often does that even happen?

But however you want to spin it, the fact is that WHM was never designed for RNG while AST was always designed with RNG, if you wanted to play a healer with no RNG, WHM has always been there. Just like anyone who wants to play a barrier healer but hates pets has SGE as an option.

[Connor]

Isn’t the whole ‘cards can’t be rng because FISHING’ completely irrelevant now because that’s exactly why Divination exists?

Even if they removed Balance completely it wouldn’t make a major difference because it’s Divination most of the rDPS comes from, right?

So realistically if they made Astrologian cards rng based again its overall contribution would be…pretty much exactly the same as it is now anyway. Because, funnily enough, ancillary defensive buffs aren’t considered a worthwhile ‘contribution’ to the community lol. Only damage is, and Astrologian’s damage output wouldn’t be significantly affected by a slightly reduced frequency of Balance, so what would be the problem?

[Valence]

Importantly, if you are going to answer "Yes, with randomized cards I'd feel different from WHM, but not without that!", then consider this: Would they then make it a 50/50 coin flip to gain a charge for the Blood Lily on using either Lily heal (essentially adding randomness to the core mechanic of WHM!) would you again feel the same as White Mage, because they now got randomness, too? As in, would the pure downgrade from having to beg your job mechanic to actually work be enough to sort regen healers into two categories, "Works as advertised" vs "Sometimes works as advertised, sometimes you just draw a dud"?

This relies on a false premise because you're consciously removing the tools to work around the rng in your example, which HW/SB AST had.