Give healers dps

[LynxDubh]

Healers are already spoiled enough with how much DPS they have in this game. I have played countless other "holy trinity" sorts of games where the healers had far, far less capability to deal damage than they do in this game, and that was seen as just how those games worked.

Try being thankful for what you already have, for a change. Some of you seem like you'll never be happy until you're doing comparable damage to the actual DPS role, and that just isn't going to happen. Get real.

And which games are you referring to?

[Jeeqbit]

The fact that you have to sit there and argue about whether or not healers should be contributing to the overall damage numbers proves to the simple fact that healers overall have lost their reason for existence.

That argument has been made since ARR though. So if this sentence is true then healers never had a reason to exist since ARR.

In ARR, people observed healers just standing there not doing anything when healing wasn't needed. So they said "so contribute some damage then..."

On a personal level, as a new player in ARR, the moment I picked up Conjurer and obtained Cleric Stance, I used it as much of the time as I could because I understood exactly what it was and that my aim was to squeeze out damage as much as I could so it didn't take an eternity. And the risk-reward of it was honestly fun.

You can ask why this is and I would point squarely at the tanks. Two of the tanks have made it so that healing is utterly unnecessary

You see, the tanks being able to survive on their own are not why we are discussing healer damage, because as I said, healer damage has been discussed since ARR.

The tanks being able to survive on their own are why we are discussing healers not being needed in the first place ie. they are simply not being used in pre-made parties for various things.

That said, healer damage wouldn't necessarily be a thing if they had no oGCDs and incoming damage was constant. Or if every boss used Counter Stance to deal back the damage players dealt to it. But the game just rarely makes damage that intense and again, I got away with DPS on a healer even in ARR and HW (although this was just in dungeons and it wasn't as easy to get away with as it is now...).

See the ones who are saying that esunaing a debuff/dot would be a dps loss.

See, this is why healing has become oGCD-centric on many healer jobs. That way they can have 100% DPS uptime while still healing. So maybe the answer is to make Esuna an oGCD like Warden's Paean on BRD.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[...]Try being thankful for what you already have, for a change. Some of you seem like you'll never be happy until you're doing comparable damage to the actual DPS role, and that just isn't going to happen. Get real.

First: thankful? Yeah, no. The job devs deserves all the flak they get for designing a job for stupids after displaying such tone deaf stance, then get :surprisedpikachu: face when so many stupids populate the role and non-stupids got fed up either with said design or the same stupids within the role. I personally have no sympathy for them. "We have no idea what to do with SCH"---said by Yoshi-P himself. Lmao.

Second: I don't know about doing comparable amount damage --- but I do care how that damage is dished. I'll just requote myself from 2nd page here:

I want something like this:


I don't want garbage like this:


Even worse, this is true for all 4. What's the point of making 4 healers if all 4 plays all too similarly? What a waste of design space.

Enuff said.

[Chajii]

There's no reason for healers to be concerned with dps overall. The fact that you have to sit there and argue about whether or not healers should be contributing to the overall damage numbers proves to the simple fact that healers overall have lost their reason for existence.

If there was stricter and harsher requirements overall for healers to fulfill, they wouldn't' whine about having nothing to do.

Healers in FFXIV from the very start are meant to be contributing to damage while healing, both are equally important to the role in this game.

When people bring up the idea of giving back healers more dps buttons, we are not asking for more damage output but rather that to have something more than 1 button spam between a single DoT reapplication. Asking for stricter healing requirements overall does not mean we can't also ask for more dps options, they could coexist.

I would argue that having more dps buttons would make healers be less concerned about having to GCD heal, for example if SCH had kept their DoTs, the GCD you use for GCD heal wouldn't be as big as losing a Broil cast as part of your Broil potency would be put back into Miasma, same would apply if it were a cooldown instead for other healers.

[IDontPetLalas]

Healers are already spoiled enough with how much DPS they have in this game. I have played countless other "holy trinity" sorts of games where the healers had far, far less capability to deal damage than they do in this game, and that was seen as just how those games worked.

Try being thankful for what you already have, for a change. Some of you seem like you'll never be happy until you're doing comparable damage to the actual DPS role, and that just isn't going to happen. Get real.

That's funny. You must be older than I am - in which case congratulations- since that was true a very, verrrrry long time ago, but hasn't been true in "countless" holy trinity games in quite a while. You see, they actually considered support classes/jobs and wanted them to enjoy the game, since they were as important as any other jobs.

This game is actually in outlier in my own experience- it's the only game where I've been locked into one set of skills with no options at all, and expected to use the same set for no matter what content I'm in. While that works well DPS, it absolutely sucks for support classes. That's the reality check that I hope Square realizes.

[LyraShu]

Healing in this game can either be the most stressful and chaotically fun jobs (when paired with bad groups), or is the most boring and repetitive jobs that you could choose.

It is fun when you get to actually heal people, use your GCD heals cause you ran out of the rest, need to maintain your MP usage, maintain your dot...ext during those bad group runs. I haven't been queuing for duties except when asked as a healer, but I pray for one of these groups every time I hear the POP. A group of sprouts going through a dungeon for the first time? I am game, get me there, omfg YES.

For groups that have things practiced to a point, I mean I have that down to a science. Wait till raid wide damage, apply ogcd mit (as sage). After raid wide, use ogcd heal. During the rest, avoid puddles...reapply DoT....hit 1. Not fun for daily duties, but this is THE kinda group you want when going to higher end duties. I will say the savage raids in this tier do feel better to heal in, more unavoidable damage and whatnot, but it still is pretty much the same song and dance (I get to use 2 or wait...3 ogcd heals to get the party up!).

So, I really don't care about the damage side of things. If SE wants to take this game in a "less stress" direction, then ya sure please give me a bit more to do (more actions/combo actions idc about the damage numbers). If it was a world that SE did what I had wanted (hah, game would fail lolz), then I would be more of a fan of higher damage output from mobs/enemies or more unavoidable damage/DoT's against the party/debuffs to cleanse.

[Grumblecakes]

I get confused with what healers want. On one hand, more DPS actions (I agree, 1 button spamming DPS isn't fun.) But on the other hand, I hear wanting to actually heal. Yet when I do Arcadian on Normal, healers don't heal and let people die to unavoidable raid wides. I have no trust in random healers, it is always rng if they heal you or not.

[TheDustyOne]

I get confused with what healers want. On one hand, more DPS actions (I agree, 1 button spamming DPS isn't fun.) But on the other hand, I hear wanting to actually heal. Yet when I do Arcadian on Normal, healers don't heal and let people die to unavoidable raid wides. I have no trust in random healers, it is always rng if they heal you or not.

Healers ultimately aren't a monolith, the ones who are happy with it currently will still play it. It just so happens that the ones who are happy with it haven't had to have proper responsibility in a good long while, so it's a crapshoot when they notice that they have to stop spamming the 1 key to notice your health is dropping. At least, that's how I look at it, the ones who were half-way decent dropped the role eventually out of boredom and so we're left with the ones that can't heal their way through an auto-attack or the ones still holding out for something a little more interesting than 1 spam. You still get the occasional good healer and they're the first ones I end up giving commendation, but more often than not I get cure-spammers or people with no game sense just mindlessly spamming Glaroilificosis.

Me personally, I just want to not fall asleep if I pick up healers again; whether that's more damage skills, more to heal, buffs/debuffs to maintain, or a good mix of those options, I just want to not be spending 15 minutes in a dungeon spamming mostly 1 button.

[Greyhawk]

I get confused with what healers want. On one hand, more DPS actions (I agree, 1 button spamming DPS isn't fun.) But on the other hand, I hear wanting to actually heal. Yet when I do Arcadian on Normal, healers don't heal and let people die to unavoidable raid wides. I have no trust in random healers, it is always rng if they heal you or not.

You aren't the only one. I main SGE. I find playing it to be helpful to raids and groups, as this expansion really so far has focused on mechanics over DPS. So, that means the ones that take advantage of eating so many mechanics are going to really feel it more, and it causes me to heal more with less DPS. The way that I look at it is really simple: I am there to heal, and that's my priority. If I DPS, then I DPS, which I do a lot of. But I never feel like I don't contribute to the whole.

[GrimGale]

I get confused with what healers want. On one hand, more DPS actions (I agree, 1 button spamming DPS isn't fun.) But on the other hand, I hear wanting to actually heal. Yet when I do Arcadian on Normal, healers don't heal and let people die to unavoidable raid wides. I have no trust in random healers, it is always rng if they heal you or not.

You can give healers a super complicated DPS rotation or you can give healers a 1 button rotation. That won't make a difference wether they chose to heal you or not.

That's never been a good arguement for or against more DPS spells for healers. You don't get to make healers heal by giving them more healing buttons either.