Give healers dps

[AmiableApkallu]

You can give healers a super complicated DPS rotation or you can give healers a 1 button rotation. That won't make a difference whether they chose to heal you or not.

Give me a 30 button DPS rotation, and I'll tunnel-vision on it and forget that the party exists.

Give me a 1 button DPS rotation, and I'll fall asleep and forget that the party exists.

There's a happy middle ground in there where the DPS rotation -- or "rotation", if it's not strictly a fixed loop -- doesn't lull me to sleep and also doesn't require so much attention that I forget that people sometimes make mistakes that I can heal up.

[ClaudeHerel]

The current iteration of healers is what the community wants. No need to change anything.

[Supersnow845]

The current iteration of healers is what the community wants. No need to change anything.

Evidence to support that

-zero

[Aravell]

SE: Doesn't acknowledge any particular healer feedback and has implemented exactly zero of the common things being asked for

The community: "What we have is EXACTLY what the entire healer community wanted"

[WaxSw]

I get confused with what healers want.

1 word Gameplay

Right now our role barely has job mechanics, in the rare situation when we have to heal the party can cover for us or it can be solved by using a small fraction of all the healing we can provide and in the most common situation of not having to heal or becoming good enough to optimize a fight we find us with a 1 button spam gameplay that shoudn't be acceptable by any standard.

There are awful healers ofc (especially since the game babies healers and teaches them nothing) but gimping the entire role design because of that people is like saying dps shoudnt have more than 2-3 buttons because there are a lot fo them that while being lv100 can barely hit the dps numbers of a lv90 tank

[GrizzlyTank]

More engaging rotations for healer would be welcome.

[Azurarok]

The current iteration of healers is what the community wants. No need to change anything.

I've come to think it's a combination of feedback from the community and the fight design team. More the latter, who benefits the most from having jobs in each role working virtually the same. The way they've addressed each introduces another problem that they've stacked up over the 3 expacs, each change furthering the role's homogenization.

ShB: Less DOT management. Pack it all to just one and extend from 18s to 30s
> WHM/SCH has less lossless weave windows
>> SCH's situation made worse from losing quickened aetherflow as well for some reason

EW: Want more weave windows? Make nukes all the same as AST's
> AST suddenly looks busier than the others due to its higher APM with cards

DT: AST too busy? Want unique card effects? Change the card system to be like Aetherflow.

Requests to add raid buffs to WHM/SGE are gaining traction now so I'm expecting that to happen by 8.0 too.

[Toutatis]

I don’t think giving more dps to healers is the solution as we’d just end up with more selfish healers looking at their numbers and/or maintaining their rotation rather than doing their job.

I’d rather healers be kept on their toes with more unavoidable damage requiring healing/cleansing and by cutting on tank self and group healing. Debuffs requiring healing actions should also occur more regularly than just in occasional duties.

Atm many healers already don’t even bother looking at debuffs and what they do and they’d rather have teammates with long 25s cleansable heavy/slow debuffs (probably a net dps loss for the group) or let people slowly die.

I just levelled up my RDM and have been having fun with it this past week yet I don’t count the times I have been rezzing group members after watching them slowly die an avoidable death from dots while clearing the normal mode raids for retainer gear and free gear for secondary jobs. Everyone will probably remember Dead Ends in EW where many healers wouldn’t cleanse necrotize because the reflex of looking at debuffs simply wasn’t there.

Also, another issue occurs when healing with a decent group: there’s practically nothing to do except periodically topping group health when there is an aoe with unavoidable damage. I almost prefer bad groups in normal content when I am healing because it gives me something to do. When I sign up as healer, I want to heal.

[BunnyQueen]

I don’t think giving more dps to healers is the solution as we’d just end up with more selfish healers looking at their numbers and/or maintaining their rotation rather than doing their job.

I’d rather healers be kept on their toes with more unavoidable damage requiring healing/cleansing and by cutting on tank self and group healing. Debuffs requiring healing actions should also occur more regularly than just in occasional duties.

Atm many healers already don’t even bother looking at debuffs and what they do and they’d rather have teammates with long 25s cleansable heavy/slow debuffs (probably a loss for the group) or let people slowly die.

I just levelled up my RDM and have been having fun with it this past week yet I don’t count the times I have been rezzing group members after watching them slowly die an avoidable death from dots while clearing the normal mode raids for retainer gear and free gear for secondary jobs. Everyone will probably remember Dead Ends in EW where many healers wouldn’t cleanse necrotize because the reflex of looking at debuffs simply wasn’t there.

Also, another issue occurs when healing with a decent group: there’s practically nothing to do except periodically topping group health when there is an aoe with unavoidable damage. I almost prefer bad groups in normal content when I am healing because it gives me something to do. When I sign up as healer, I want to heal.

Agreed. This is what happens when you have devs that don't care about the game making combat.

[WaxSw]

I don’t think giving more dps to healers is the solution as we’d just end up with more selfish healers looking at their numbers and/or maintaining their rotation rather than doing their job. It would only work in statics when the group works together...

When I sign up as healer, I want to heal.

This game's history shows that the kind of players that chad the other are present no matter if we have 1 or 10 dpsing tools. It's about time we focus on a having a proper gameplay first and think about how a player can misuse it only after having a satisfactory loop.

Healing more isn't the solution and will never be due to the nature of the game. A "healer's should heal solution" must face problems such as:

-Gear stat increase: better gear=less damage taken and healing done per cast=less healing needed, which in turns mean that the better geared a player is the less they get to enjoy the gameplay. We are punishing players for gearing properly with a "healers should heal solution"

-Game is scripted: Even the most randomized fight can be boiled down to a script in this game, a scripted that can be easily optimized leaving the players with plenty of time to dps. Not only that but the better a player is, the less they spend on healing. A "healers should heal solution" punishes job mastery instead of reward it.

-Content with different difficulty: Even if you increase the healing on all difficulties normal can't be too hard or people wont clear but also means that people who can clear savage and ultimate (and even extremes) will be left with plenty of downtime to dps regardless. Once again we punish job mastery with boring gameplay

-That solution is bound to the content: A change like that is applied to the content instead of exclusively to the job kits (like a dps change would be), this means that you would have to retroactively add that change to all of the content of the game which is a massive waste of dev resources.

I can point more problems like how that would fare in overworld or msq where the damage needs to be low enough so that dps can clear or how the healing kit is also oversimplified and homogenized in its GCD which also makes extensive healing boring and generic.

The point is, you can rework healing but to fix the healers you need to fix what the healers do when there is nothing to heal, because that kit is the only thing you know players will interact with regardless of the content they are doing