The death of savage raiding and SE's lack of action

[Aravell]

Another hard fact.

It's only a hard fact in your dreams.

So the circles you run in think there's no issue and you don't run into any issues yourself. Alright, there's no issue in your narrow circle. That doesn't make it a hard fact.

In my circles, everyone agrees that healers suck to play and nobody wants to play them, so now we're at odds, we both have different experiences, that now dissolves your "facts" into an anecdote.

So since we're comparing, I waited over 40 minutes for a regen healer on reset day, right at reset, on a JP DC. People said JP loves healers, so what gives? And here's another one, my friends made a PF 2 hours after reset, at JP peak time, and they waited close to an hour for healers.

Huh, looks like your experience isn't fact after all.

[Havenchild]

It's only a hard fact in your dreams.

So the circles you run in think there's no issue and you don't run into any issues yourself. Alright, there's no issue in your narrow circle. That doesn't make it a hard fact.

In my circles, everyone agrees that healers suck to play and nobody wants to play them, so now we're at odds, we both have different experiences, that now dissolves your "facts" into an anecdote.

So since we're comparing, I waited over 40 minutes for a regen healer on reset day, right at reset, on a JP DC. People said JP loves healers, so what gives? And here's another one, my friends made a PF 2 hours after reset, at JP peak time, and they waited close to an hour for healers.

Huh, looks like your experience isn't fact after all.

Oh ok because you waited for a healer that means the healerstrike was relevant? Ic

Explain how exactly is this any different than literally any tier since SB around this time frame? There have ALWAYS been shortages to support roles. Period.

The healerstrike specifically has added nothing to this, especially since far more players have cleared this tier compared to others which still means far more healers cleared also. But you were the one that made the assumption that all of the healers are good samaritans in PF so they are constantly jumping back in.
Ironic, because if that logic was true, those parties would have filled faster. It's almost as if le gasp, alot are clearing on reset. Idk how JP DC is admittingly but on Aether there is nothing par from the usual.

The only thing that has majorily changed is the speed of which PF has progressed through the tier compared to previous ones, which of all the arguments makes the most sense to explain the falloff in not just healer but tanks and even dps roles.

[Supersnow845]

Oh ok because you waited for a healer that means the healerstrike was relevant? Ic

Explain how exactly is this any different than literally any tier since SB around this time frame? There have ALWAYS been shortages to support roles. Period.

The healerstrike specifically has added nothing to this, especially since far more players have cleared this tier compared to others which still means far more healers cleared also. But you were the one that made the assumption that all of the healers are good samaritans in PF so they are constantly jumping back in.
Ironic, because if that logic was true, those parties would have filled faster. It's almost as if le gasp, alot are clearing on reset. Idk how JP DC is admittingly but on Aether there is nothing par from the usual.

The only thing that has majorily changed is the speed of which PF has progressed through the tier compared to previous ones, which of all the arguments makes the most sense to explain the falloff in not just healer but tanks and even dps roles.

“There’s always been this sort of shortage with healers”

Yes that’s the problem, there shouldn’t just be the assumption of a shortage that must be accepted, make healers good to play and you won’t have this shortage, they seemed to have figured this out with tanks

More people cleared this tier because it’s easy as hell, that doesn’t preclude a healer shortage, but you also didn’t read my post saying that

[Havenchild]

“There’s always been this sort of shortage with healers”

Yes that’s the problem, there shouldn’t just be the assumption of a shortage that must be accepted, make healers good to play and you won’t have this shortage, they seemed to have figured this out with tanks

More people cleared this tier because it’s easy as hell, that doesn’t preclude a healer shortage, but you also didn’t read my post saying that

Mr.Math, it still means that more Healers did clear the raid content than before amidst a Healerstrike.

Now as for a shortage or problems with the role, those are both seperate matters than to what the healerstrike specifically contributed to, which with current evidence, is completely contrary to showing any measured affect of the healer strike. Which means, it amounted to nothing.

Again, discontent on forums does not translate to PF especially when those expressing such discontent are largely in optimized statics, the only true realm where the healer "issues" are even noticeable. PF with its random deaths, terrible mitigation, and healer skills overlapping for either overmitting or overhealing wildly disintegrates issues with the healer kit on average, especially when the kit becomes far more useable.

Lastly, you are wildly misinformed on why no one plays Healers. I assure you, every MMO mimics the same issues. No matter how fun you make a healer, MMO players on average just don't like to play the Healer role. They don't like the responsibilities that on average come with the role, moreso in XIV, where healers have more responsibility now than every other role in the trifecta and battle design.

[Supersnow845]

Mr.Math, it still means that more Healers did clear the raid content than before amidst a Healerstrike.

Now as for a shortage or problems with the role, those are both seperate matters than to what the healerstrike specifically contributed to, which with current evidence, is completely contrary to showing any measured affect of the healer strike. Which means, it amounted to nothing.

Again, discontent on forums does not translate to PF especially when those expressing such discontent are largely in optimized statics, the only true realm where the healer "issues" are even noticeable. PF with its random deaths, terrible mitigation, and healer skills overlapping for either overmitting or overhealing wildly disintegrates issues with the healer kit on average, especially when the kit becomes far more useable.

Again why are you arguing like either of us is attempting to pin the shortage on the healer strike. I’m saying there is a shortage because that’s what the listening posts are saying right now, it’s the biggest topic on 2chan right now and it aligns with people not wanting to play the role becquse it’s bad. Reddit meanwhile basically just heaves a sigh whenever healers are discussed because everyone agrees they are shit and they are sick of talking about them. A tier being so easy people who don’t usually do savage could clear it doesn’t mean there isn’t a shortage, it exasperates it, especially in a double DPS expansion

If you disagreee then fine but acting it’s a forums echo chamber problem won’t make it go away

Also healers have more responsibility in 14, that’s rich. You’ll also find that other MMO’s have a bigger tank problem, so why does 14 have a healer problem. It’s certainly easier finding a healer than a tank in WOW

(Also I love your nickname, it just makes me think of you saying “I love your funny words magic man”, just makes you look like you can’t read basic maths)

[Havenchild]

snip

snip.

You both responded to a reply I made to someone else about the Healerstrike being ineffective (true lol)

And both tried to use numbers to justify how either A) a shortage exists or B) not that many healers actually are clearing and are just helping out, again as a response to me pointing out it was a fail.

Now suddenly when the large chunk of evidence we have does support that more healers are clearing compared to alot of other raid tiers, as far more players cleared week 1 than ever before, suddenly neither of you are referring to the healerstrike where my comments have always been about. Im not understanding why you are replying to me then as apparently you aren't disagreeing either.

So back to my point which you both have a hard time swallowing or following, the healerstrike was ineffective. More healers have cleared this tier and faster than before. Shortages have always existed, the healerstrike specifically hasn't really contributed any measureable decline in the presense of healers in PF.

That is seperate from Mr.Math's conclusion that the lack of healers overall in PF is exacerbated now that far more people have cleared.

[Supersnow845]

You both responded to a reply I made to someone else about the Healerstrike being ineffective (true lol)

And both tried to use numbers to justify how either A) a shortage exists or B) not that many healers actually are clearing and are just helping out, again as a response to me pointing out it was a fail.

Now suddenly when the large chunk of evidence we have does support that more healers are clearing compared to alot of other raid tiers as far more players are completing the tier suddenly neither of you are referring to the healerstrike where my comments have always been about. Im not understanding why you are replying to me then as apparently you aren't disagreeing either.

So back to my point which you both have a hard time swallowing or following, the healerstrike was ineffective. More healers have cleared this tier and faster than before. Shortages have always existed, the healerstrike specifically hasn't really contributed any measureable decline in the presense of healers in PF.

That is seperate from Mr.Math's conclusion that the lack of healers overall in PF is exasperated now that far more people have cleared.

You ever consider the fact that I was replying to a part of your comment that didn’t involve your mention of the healer strike

I opposed your weird use of anecdotes when you also tell other people they are meaningless and that an inbuilt healer shortage should be expected and not attempt be be corrected

I don’t care about whether you attach that to a failure of the healer strike or not. My point was the shortage is bad this tier and when you asked me to explain myself I did which caused to come up with a dumb nickname but never actually acknowledge my point

[Aravell]

Shortages have always existed

This is completely going against the reality that Yoshi P himself acknowledged a healer shortage just 2 tiers ago and also begged people to give healers a try.

Are you saying that somehow the healer population surged from a population low enough for the producer to speak up about it to a healthy sustainable population in less than 2 years? To the point that there's no longer a concern about it?

There's a lot of evidence that you're overlooking to try and make your view of reality to become real. Like I said before, your view may be true for your own narrow circle, but that doesn't make it a hard fact, and cherrypicking your data doesn't change that.

Edit: Not sure why you have to make everything about the healerstrike, but you do what you like.

[Aravell]

Snip

Ok, remind me again where exactly I attributed anything to the healerstrike or even mentioned it at all before this? You're fighting a strawman and I need you to stop.

You asked for any reason that this might be happening and I pointed out a possible reason that a healer shortage could be happening. You're the one who took it as an attack and started mocking the healerstrike despite me not even mentioning it or alluding to it at all.

That said, I don't know what's normal on Aether, but on JP, the last time we had to wait this long for a healer was during Abyssos, where Yoshi P himself acknowledged a healer shortage.

[SieyaM]

It's only a hard fact in your dreams.

So the circles you run in think there's no issue and you don't run into any issues yourself. Alright, there's no issue in your narrow circle. That doesn't make it a hard fact.

In my circles, everyone agrees that healers suck to play and nobody wants to play them, so now we're at odds, we both have different experiences, that now dissolves your "facts" into an anecdote.

So since we're comparing, I waited over 40 minutes for a regen healer on reset day, right at reset, on a JP DC. People said JP loves healers, so what gives? And here's another one, my friends made a PF 2 hours after reset, at JP peak time, and they waited close to an hour for healers.

Huh, looks like your experience isn't fact after all.

So you are surprised you had trouble finding a healer at midnight on a weekday in Japan when most people probably had to work in the morning and wouldn't want to be up that late.