JP: Yoshi P should step down, FF14 is a sinking ship, in response to interview

[Striker44]

Their approach of „surprise the players at the last moment“ they usually do with the story backfired spectacularly this time because it wasn‘t the story itself they changed but the narrative.

Meanwhile, for every person here going to absurd hyperbole like this, there's a dozen people who enjoyed the story and know it didn't backfire at all, but rather has been a great hit.

[ZavosEsperian]

Meanwhile, for every person here going to absurd hyperbole like this, there's a dozen people who enjoyed the story and know it didn't backfire at all, but rather has been a great hit.

you say this:

every person here going to absurd hyperbole like this

but follow it up with:

there's a dozen people who enjoyed the story and know it didn't backfire at all, but rather has been a great hit.

I would say you are being rather hypocritical as you are being hyperbolic, no? Or are you counting yourself into the "every person here going to absurd hyperbole" category?

[Catwho]

I would say you are being rather hypocritical as you are being hyperbolic, no? Or are you counting yourself into the "every person here going to absurd hyperbole" category?

A lot of the people who are saying they enjoyed the story aren't on the official forums, because the constant negativity here has made them never want to post anything.

They're in my Discord channels, though. They're on Tumblr. They're in my linkshell. I've got a few actual proper Wuk Lamat stans in my friend's circle, and one of them is a published author who caught on that she's a "shounen protagonist." From the time Wuk Lamat was introduced, she adopted sort of a big sister persona towards her, so a lot of the things that rankled most of us (including me) she appreciated for what it was presented as - a dumbass kid learning.

I didn't hate Dawntrail, but I did think it was weaker from a storyline perspective than the last two expansions,and struggled with pacing issues around Shaaloani especially. I genuinely enjoyed it after that.

[ZXN]

A lot of the people who are saying they enjoyed the story aren't on the official forums, because the constant negativity here has made them never want to post anything.

I understand this. LOTS of people love Wuk Lamat and are absolutely allowed to like the character for their own reasons. Players should be able to go on the forums and talk about how much they like Wuk Lamat. People harassing them or mocking them or labeled them with certain terms for liking Wuk Lamat for their own personal, genuine reasons is a petty thing to do.

But the reverse is also true.

Players should be able to go on the forums and talk about how much they dislike Wuk Lamat. People harassing them or mocking them or labeled them with certain terms for hating Wuk Lamat for their own personal, genuine reasons is also a petty thing to do.

Unfortunately this is the internet, so for some people the knob must ALWAYS be cranked up to Zealot levels of either defense or hatred.

Wuk Lamat supporters on Twitter, for an unfortunate example, like to call players who dislike Wuk Lamat either misogynistic or transphobic or a bigot, because to them you MUST be either one of these things or all of them to dislike Wuk Lamat. Likewise, Wuk Lamat haters like to call players who like Wuk Lamat...well, I won't say for the obvious reason that a lot of the things said get hit with the sensitive material warning, but they say it because to them you MUST be a minority or "trans enabler", or whatever dumb shit they call people who support trans people these day, to like Wuk Lamat.

I hate Wuk Lamat. Does that mean I deserve to be labeled as a transphobic, misogynistic bigot even if I give my own genuine reasons why? Likewise, if a player loves Wuk Lamat, does that mean THEY deserve to be called a groomer or even slurs if they give their own genuine reasons why they like the character? If a player who uses Japanese/French/German voices and dialogue loves/hates Wuk Lamat, does that mean THEY deserve to be labeled a certain way/called a slur? While I obviously cannot/will not speak for the other languages: I would think it should be seen as extremely rude and asinine to go "You hate Wuk Lamat? Glad to know you're a bigot" or "You like Wuk Lamat? Of a course a -insert bad slur here- would love this character" to a Japanese/French/German player who uses their own language for the voices and most likely has absolutely no idea what the hell is going on, or even remotely care, with the English side of the game, but still got labeled something terrible by the English side anyway.

Should you be able to say "I LOVE Wuk Lamat" and have a conversation? Yes.
Should you be able to say "I HATE Wuk Lamat" and have a conversation? Yes.

Unfortunately, again, this is the internet, and it's just easier to call someone each other name in the book instead of having actual conversations and coming to an understanding.

[honest_psycho]

Unfortunately, again, this is the internet, and it's just easier to call someone each other name in the book instead of having actual conversations and coming to an understanding.

You're convieniently forgetting the very first post in this thread, where OP layed out in clean bullet points, what is wrong with the story.
Not only this thread, but also all the other dozens of threads.

If you ask 10 different people "what's wrong with the MSQ", you get 10 different threads, detailing 10 different reasons.

Just claiming that all we do is just blindly hate and not provide any feedback at all is insulting and ignorant.
The vitriol comes from people, whose arguments are simply ignored or downplayed.
I'm sick and tired to hearing "WE ARE A MENTOR" or "THIS IS A VACATION EXPAC" when these kind of arguments are blatantly false.

If you REALLY want, you can find more than enough properly elaborated arguments for why the story was absolute hot garbage.

[ZXN]

You're convieniently forgetting the very first post in this thread, where OP layed out in clean bullet points, what is wrong with the story.
Not only this thread, but also all the other dozens of threads.

If you ask 10 different people "what's wrong with the MSQ", you get 10 different threads, detailing 10 different reasons.

Just claiming that all we do is just blindly hate and not provide any feedback at all is insulting and ignorant.
The vitriol comes from people, whose arguments are simply ignored or downplayed.
I'm sick and tired to hearing "WE ARE A MENTOR" or "THIS IS A VACATION EXPAC" when these kind of arguments are blatantly false.

If you REALLY want, you can find more than enough properly elaborated arguments for why the story was absolute hot garbage.

I have given my own personal opinion on multiple threads: Dawntrail's story and Wuk Lamat are fucking abysmal. Wuk Lamat is literally a Black Hole Sue fursona OC and Dawntrail is someone's fanfiction about her that got the greenlight.

I could go on and on about all the points I've made before in other threads, but that has no bearing at the moment.

The point was that it is simply easier in a place like twitter to scream buzzwords and slurs and label each other then to actually attempt conversations with each other like you can on the forums.

On the forums, someone CAN go "I like/hate Wuk Lamat" and can actually talk with others and attempt to understand each other's reasons.

You try to have a thread like this one, or one of the many others, on a platform like twitter though and I guarantee it would become an absolutely shitstorm by the end of the day if the algorithm delivers it to the FF14 twitter side of the community.

It will absolutely be swarmed with zealot players doing everything they can to reduce any and all criticisms and feedback you might have by just constantly trying to push the narrative that you're only giving "feedback and criticism" because you're actually just Transphobic/Bigoted/Misogynistic/etc and not even attempt to have a conversation to understand your criticisms, while also funneling in bad apple players and actual bigots and make everything worse by derailing conversation attempts with slurs or transphobic remarks and potentially vile images.

You're just simply NOT going to get the same results from FF14's twitter side like you can attempt to get on the forums.

You said it yourself: "Just claiming that all we do is just blindly hate and not provide any feedback at all is insulting and ignorant." And you're right.

As a Lizard Dad once said: "Ignorance begets strife. Understanding begets fellowship." Unfortunately for many people, especially in twitter's case, it is simply "easier" to "invalidate" any criticisms and feedback someone might have by trying to tie it to some extreme reason then to have an actual conversation.

[Kaurhz]

Meanwhile, for every person here going to absurd hyperbole like this, there's a dozen people who enjoyed the story and know it didn't backfire at all, but rather has been a great hit.

Glad we have someone such as yourself that feels confident speaking on behalf of such a significant number of players.

[honest_psycho]

Meanwhile, for every person here going to absurd hyperbole like this, there's a dozen people who enjoyed the story and know it didn't backfire at all, but rather has been a great hit.

Sample size bias.